break up with family friends? WWYD?

[Corneliafunk]

long time lurker. would welcome your thoughts about a situation I find myself in...
long time friends with 2 young-ish kids now appear to be in a toxic relationship where he emotionally abuses her. My DH and I have been supporting her, even as much as to first identify what was going on as she, (calling her 'Sarah'), hadn't realized how bad it was herself. They have been together 20 years.
They are still sharing a house but of recent times leading separate lives while working out what to do. Sarah has since told a few close others but relies heavily on my husband and i with many texts and impromptu visits over the past 3-4 months during which she is often (understandably) upset.
However, to me it has become apparent over that time that Sarah seems to envisage a future for herself and her children at some point with my husband and our 2 kids. I have spoken a few times to him about this but most recently he has started to say 'are you still going on about this'; and 'I don't see it'. Examples of what I am seeing include: Sarah tells me things, but then tells my husband something different (e.g. before their relationship blew up we all holidayed together and split the bills equally, except when it was her turn to do this with me at the grocery store when she refused. my husband talked to her and of course she then agreed). She has told me she had a previous boyfriend my husband's height (he is only as tall as I am) and it didn't bother her. Always talking about him. Complaining about my husband and I having 'in jokes' that she is excluded from. Things like this. I want to stay friends with her as I like her as a person and I feel for her. I think my husband and i are too closely involved in their troubles. My DH agrees and wants to step away a bit, but no more than this as he sees her as a really good friend. He actively dislikes Sarah's husband now given the behavior we saw on holiday and all the many things Sarah has since told us about him and how he is reacting to their relationship troubles. At another earlier holiday we all had together, before I knew about Sarah relationship problems, I later complained to my husband that I felt boundaries between him (my DH) and her were blurred - they spent so much time together, were rubbing each others legs with their feet under the card table as a joke, frequently bumping shoulders in a playful way, stayed up talking late into the night long after the rest of us went to bed etc. My husband apologized and said he hadn't realized how it looked and at my request also talked to Sarah about my views and she said understood these apparently. Our families are quite meshed together - should we just break up with their family? I am not sure my husband would agree to this. Sarah would also be devastated, at a point when she is already struggling. She is receiving some help but the counselor is so busy Sarah can only get infrequent appointments. Over time we have had different friends move away and these are (or have been) our oldest and closest friends. I make Sarah sound not that nice, but we do actually get on and although I don't need her in my life, I would be sad to see her go as we like doing the same things in our spare time. WWYD?

OP just checking in... how are you ? 🌸

Well, I received an email from Sarah asking to see me as she wanted to understand what had gone wrong between us. I went to see her this weekend. When I arrived she was already in tears. So much is going on for her with her separation/divorce and she is now on anti depressants. her main support is now her 12 yo daughter and they were in the habit of texting each other a lot as Sarah is not always at the house, but sleeps in an outside bedroom. Her husband has taken the kids away this weekend and said Sarah is too unstable and he will control this phone now and so through it what contact occurs between Mum and daughter. Sarah's other friends are still there but have their own lives and issues to sort as well. She has a lawyer but it is taking time to sort out the trust and she has heard nothing from them over the past 2 weeks about this.
Anyway, I spoke my piece and said all the things I have written about on here and included some of the phrases and words that MNers had provided me. Her response is that she wishes I had spoken up sooner (I had asked my DH to do this after the October holiday which he did, but either he did not say enough explicitly as to what I found wrong in the situation or she just didn't take it enough on board) and that she never intended to take him away from me. I told her that at the end of the day i don't trust her and that my DH admitted he had unintentionally become too emotionally involved with her and her situation.

Sarah said that she would still like us to see each other, even if she doesn't see or talk to DH. She feels worse about the loss of our friendship (the one between the 3 of us and also between our children) than she does about the implosion of her own relationship with her husband. I have said I still care for her and worry about her situation but that I also need to focus on my own wellbeing. So this was how it was left. I feel completely drained emotionally myself now. We talked it out over 1.5 hours. Exhausting. I am disappointed in my husband too, and I said this to Sarah and I will say it again to him - however, I still do have trust in him. But it is dented.

Sarah is an emotional vampire, trying to suck back in

Her problems are not your problems and they’re not your DH problems. Reiterate to DH to stay away but at least now you see first hand Sarah’s theatrics and manipulation tactics

You are too involved in her life. You need to get far away.
What do you mean lives are inter twined?

She needs to find another outlet for her problems, not you.

@Corneliafunk From having read all your posts, Sarah is having a tough time leaving the safety of her marriage and is lining up - consciously or unconsciously - a replacement in your unthreatening DH. Obviously, that doesn't work for you.

If she's not deliberately trying to wreck your marriage and is just acting irrationally due to her current mental troubles, I could see the friendship continuing as a you and her thing for the indefinite future, i.e. until she is in a better place mentally and stops trying to find replacement husbands everywhere she goes. It would be kind to stick with her and to provide female friendship (cutting off access to your DH for the time being as much for her benefit as for yours), but it's a big emotional ask. You can opt-out of this - Sarah needs support, but sometimes we find ourselves maxed out with what we can give.

Sarah is clearly struggling with life at the moment, and if your DH is a good man, I'm not surprised he's upset about withdrawing totally and leaving her on her own. Equally, if he had been having an emotional affair, I'd expect a similar reaction. So - trust your gut. The wife always knows the truth deep down. Is he a good guy who is upset he isn't the right person to help a struggling vulnerable woman, or is he an adulterous creep who wants to shag the family friend? I say these things in their extremes because they will provoke a gut reaction from you, and one will feel more true than the other - as I said, the wife always knows. That's you.

One final point - Sarah's had a tough time, no question. But you've also had a tough time. In deciding whether to persevere with saving your friendship with Sarah or walking away, you are allowed to put yourself first for once. Would Sarah on a good day enhance your life? Or has it always been a one-sided friendship?

Honestly OP you both need to walk away from this, it is not your burden to bear. Yes she’s having a very tough time but that shouldn’t come at the price of your own marriage. Cut off ties and move on do not let her suck you back in to all the drama you need to put your own family first.

Wait, she’s more upset about losing you and your husbands friendship than she is losing her family unit? That’s not normal is it? That just shows how much she has invested in your family, she’s getting desperate to not lose contact now as it’s messing with her plan b, which she was happily putting into action, until you ruined things.
She doesn’t give a toss about you and your ‘friendship’, you are just inconveniently standing in the way of her getting her new life/happy ending, with your husband.

God, now you are going over to see her. Stop it. Stop talking to her and stop going to see her. If you aren't going to heed people's advice then that's just really annoying and I've wasted my time reading this and other people have too

Sarah is inappropriate. A 12yr old is not old enough to be leaned on for any reason. Especially when the reason is divorce, which will obviously affect the DC too. The 12yr old needs to be given support from her parents not the other way round. I'm glad Sarah's H has picked up on it and taken the DC's phone away to put a stop to it. It goes to show how selfish Sarah is that she'd do this to her own DC.

If Sarah needs more support than ordinary friends can give then she needs to book a counsellor. It's telling that all her other friends won't put up with her histerics. An hour and a half conversation in person isn't about getting closure and trying to understand, it's about trying to change your mind. You could have explained in ten minutes over the phone. I would delete and block now. You can't focus on repairing the damage to your marriage while your head is full of Sarah's problems. Sarah appears to care about nobody except herself.

Walk away from Sarah and don't go back. Wants to be your friend even if she doesn't see your DH, pleeeese, she wants attention and fuss. Yes, she's going through a shit time, but she has been out of order, as has your DH. The only way to cure it is cut it all out, not keeping connections.

OP Im glad you said your piece with Sarah. I also find it disturbing that she uses her 12 year old child as an emotional crutch, it just proves how deeply inconsiderate she is of appropriate boundaries.

Focus on your marriage your family and your mental wellbeing now OP, Sarah has taken more than enough of your heart and soul, and potentially fractured your own once stable marriage.

Good luck 🍀

I agree with Sarah's husband on the point that she is to emotional unstable at the moment. She needs professional help from a counsellor. As she can't see how her behaviour is contributing to the breakdown of her marriage.

Unfortunately the way she is carrying on it is only going to worse for her. I can see her getting divorced and there daughter going to live with her father because of the way Sarah is treating her.

Both you and your husband need now to block her as she is encroaching into your relationship and you both need to put your relationship first if it is going to survive.

There is at the very minimum an emotional affair going on & he tells you one thing then does the opposite( agreeing not to see her then breaking his word). I'm wondering if the Trust is a carrot to say if you leave her for me , there is money . You could insist you only see or speak to her together, after telling her that's how it's going to be. Her reaction would probably tell you a lot. If she goes behind your back to contact him alone or is snarky when you lay it out to her , that would deffo say he's her Plan B.

** Wait, she’s more upset about losing you and your husbands friendship than she is losing her family unit? That’s not normal is it? That just shows how much she has invested in your family, she’s getting desperate to not lose contact now as it’s messing with her plan b, which she was happily putting into action, until you ruined things.

She doesn’t give a toss about you and your ‘friendship’, you are just inconveniently standing in the way of her getting her new life/happy ending, with your husband.**

^This. You and your husband need to cut her off OP or you can kiss your marriage goodbye.

OP how are you ? 🌸

Since I last wrote, and soon after I saw Sarah as described in my message above, I thought about something a MNer said about finding support from people who are paid to provide this. I searched the internet and found an organization which offers support and help over the phone. I contacted them and had a long chat with one of their counselors. They specialize in domestic violence issues and I realized that these were the people Sarah needed to talk to. I haven't described much about the emotional abuse going on as i feel that could be too outing but it is horrendous, esp when it is being perpetrated by a (former) close friend of mine - Sarah's husband! It is a whole thread in itself.
i texted Sarah and suggested she phone the organization. I didn't hear back (not surprising) so I found the phone number of her other friends who are supporting her as well, whom I know a little.

I had a long discussion with them - they knew more of the personal stuff between Sarah and her husband and had talked to him as well - he said he hadn't been happy for years.

The friends want Sarah to have couples counseling, as they believe that longer term she will have to work with her husband for the good of the kids. But the organization I found thought this type of approach usually opens up the opportunity for the victim to be re-abused and that the family court is a better way to go. I also described to them (the friends) my concerns about Sarah's friendship with my husband.

The friends said i should protect myself and family first and foremost, and thought that unless we could be there for Sarah 100% then my DH and I should exit the situation. They didn't say strongly one way or the other whether they believed Sarah had designs on my husband. I agreed, esp as I don't believe couples counseling is the right thing for Sarah and her hearing different recommendations from them and from me as to what to do next was not going to be helpful.
Sarah subsequently texted me for my birthday to thank me for putting her in touch with the community support organization and said that this group had given her more to think about. her lawyer and her husband's lawyer were now to progress the splitting of the trust, but had yet to achieve anything meaningful though. I thanked her and wished her well.

We haven't been in touch since and DH and i haven't really talked any further about this topic, and have just got on with life. The whole thing has made me question my relationship with my DH though, and I am still unhappy about what I view as his betrayal, even if it was an unthinking one (naive as he likes to say).

.The whole thing has made me question my relationship with my DH though, and I am still unhappy about what I view as his betrayal, even if it was an unthinking one (naive as he likes to say).

I completely understand and sympathise... it's a conversation you need to have even just to make it clear that he fractured your trust in your marriage and he alone did this.

You will know when the time is right to do this.

You have gone above and beyond for Sarah, time to walk away.

You are a good person. 🌸