break up with family friends? WWYD?

[Corneliafunk]

long time lurker. would welcome your thoughts about a situation I find myself in...
long time friends with 2 young-ish kids now appear to be in a toxic relationship where he emotionally abuses her. My DH and I have been supporting her, even as much as to first identify what was going on as she, (calling her 'Sarah'), hadn't realized how bad it was herself. They have been together 20 years.
They are still sharing a house but of recent times leading separate lives while working out what to do. Sarah has since told a few close others but relies heavily on my husband and i with many texts and impromptu visits over the past 3-4 months during which she is often (understandably) upset.
However, to me it has become apparent over that time that Sarah seems to envisage a future for herself and her children at some point with my husband and our 2 kids. I have spoken a few times to him about this but most recently he has started to say 'are you still going on about this'; and 'I don't see it'. Examples of what I am seeing include: Sarah tells me things, but then tells my husband something different (e.g. before their relationship blew up we all holidayed together and split the bills equally, except when it was her turn to do this with me at the grocery store when she refused. my husband talked to her and of course she then agreed). She has told me she had a previous boyfriend my husband's height (he is only as tall as I am) and it didn't bother her. Always talking about him. Complaining about my husband and I having 'in jokes' that she is excluded from. Things like this. I want to stay friends with her as I like her as a person and I feel for her. I think my husband and i are too closely involved in their troubles. My DH agrees and wants to step away a bit, but no more than this as he sees her as a really good friend. He actively dislikes Sarah's husband now given the behavior we saw on holiday and all the many things Sarah has since told us about him and how he is reacting to their relationship troubles. At another earlier holiday we all had together, before I knew about Sarah relationship problems, I later complained to my husband that I felt boundaries between him (my DH) and her were blurred - they spent so much time together, were rubbing each others legs with their feet under the card table as a joke, frequently bumping shoulders in a playful way, stayed up talking late into the night long after the rest of us went to bed etc. My husband apologized and said he hadn't realized how it looked and at my request also talked to Sarah about my views and she said understood these apparently. Our families are quite meshed together - should we just break up with their family? I am not sure my husband would agree to this. Sarah would also be devastated, at a point when she is already struggling. She is receiving some help but the counselor is so busy Sarah can only get infrequent appointments. Over time we have had different friends move away and these are (or have been) our oldest and closest friends. I make Sarah sound not that nice, but we do actually get on and although I don't need her in my life, I would be sad to see her go as we like doing the same things in our spare time. WWYD?

@Beefcurtains79.

To be fair, op has said it’s not Sarah talking to dh, but it does seem a coincidence that someone is talking to dh about this so soon. She has somehow initiated contact. Surely, this sort of thing would be discussed much further down the divorce line, not at the outset. She’s keeping him reeled in, even if she’s not talking to him directly.

@Corneliafunk love, you know what is happening here, WE know what’s happening here. MrCornelia may or may not know exactly but let’s be clear about this so he can ‘get it’

Sarah is making a real play for your H. She has plenty of other people better qualified to ask for help and recommendations, but she chose your DH specifically because she is telegraphing that she’s soon going to be single so he can start readying himself to be with her and be her soft place to fall.

MrCornelia, this is a predatory woman. She is trying to destroy your marriage, your family and for what? A whim?

Wake up man.

You’re in danger of losing EVERYTHING for the sake of this weirdo.

Extricate yourself now, not next week, not tomorrow, not gradually, NOW.

You’ve told her what she’s doing and that you’re stepping back

That’s it

No birthdays? No Christmas, she’s trying to take out your family!

Ah, sorry. Why is the trust suddenly a thing when they’ve not even started divorce proceedings yet? Bizarre.
Start preparing yourself for any excuse she can find to sustain contact.

This trust thing- was dh a witness to the signature?

That’s literally the extent of his need to confirm anything

He needs to be very firm with ALL attempts to be reeled in.

Does he have duties to fulfil with regard to this Trust or is he, like others have said, just a Witness.
She’s intent on enmeshing your DH.

So your dh was on the phone before 9 AM about this trust. So clearly not to a professional then. I’d hazard a guess that Sarah has a confidant who knows that she and your DH are involved and is doing the ringing on her behalf to keep up the illusion of NC.

TBH if it were me at this stage I would be telling him that it’s over. I wouldn’t be playing the pick me dance and I wouldn’t be giving him ultimatums. He’s made it very clear where his loyalties lie, and they’re not with you.

I will be amazed if they haven’t already slept together, but if they haven’t then it’s only a matter of time.

@Corneliafunk

You really need to wise up,

She is no/ not a good friend to you,at all .!

Your so called friend is obviously enjoying all your husband attention focus on her, to your expense !

They have both crossed boundaries !

This is a emotionally abusive /toxic friendship,

I wouldn't be surprised if she has got a reptuation for being like this with other friends Partners /or with men in general who she finds acctractive.

You are being far too passive,

Why the heck do you care about other people in your community feelings in regard of this very emotionally messy situation then?

(I can sure tell,these other women in your community wouldn't put up, tolerate this crap kind of stuff,

Don't worry about other people judging you etc,.

please don't put up with this kind of humiliation !

I think your so called friend could even be tolerating putting up with you, just to keep in close contact with your husband..

Make sure you know your personal boundaries and stick to them strongly !

ps the footsie and the intimate two of them chats when everybody goes to bed !

Bloody hell what on earths going on here,
do they fancy each other .!!??

Its it bloody hell looks like it !

Ditch your friend !

She is taking advantage of your people pleaser ways far too much !

Please look into getting some kind of therapy or Therepies
why you put up with this kind of crap for so long from both of them.!!!

(this is from myself who went through a similar kind of experience not so long ago !

Your husband is enjoying her ,your so called friend attention as,
her rescuer !

(she knows this,and plays on this,
and she even and both of them ,
Blantandly flirt with each other,
Oblivious to the hurt ,
that they were creating !

this is emotional cruelty ,!

Since your update about how your husband knew them both before you came along I reckon your husband might have always been her back-up option somewhere in her mind.
Now she has the need for a plan B, she’s not going to want to find another one when she’s already sown the seeds.

I think your husband finds her acctractive in some way to be so emotionally involved to want to rember her birthday too

How convenient that the trust phone call came it at 7am.

Wake up.

They have already way way way overstepped the mark of friendship.

At best, it's an emotional affair.

I suspect it's gone way further tbh.

Sarah is not your friend. Not one little bit.

Is your husband a trustee? If so he needs to take urgent advice about getting himself removed.

Trustees can leave - it happens all the time. Get legal advice today. I can't believe both OP and her husband have been so sucked in that they think he's essential for her financial future and that prioritising their own marriage over her is wrong.

Well I can, I have someone a bit like that in my family - she thinks the world revolves around her and dramatises everything to pull people into it if at all possible. Most won't be drawn but some kinder or more innocent souls are.

OP I suspect that when you successfully cut all ties with this couple, your life will become enormously simpler and nicer.

He’s not a trustee. He was a witness right? Like I witnessed my friends mortgage application. I wouldn’t then expect to be drawn into any further discussions about their mortgage or finances and neither have I. Witness to signature happens all the time. You are being taken for a mug. He’s not a solicitor, has no financial involvement and is not required to unravel the trust. A properly engaged solicitor will sort out the trust. Who is ringing him? He needs to stop answering the phone to Sarah related things. This has gone way too far now. I think you need to be firmed with your husband. You need to say “this stops now or I’m seeking legal advice about taking out an injunction against her”

and why on Earth would your husband become a trustee to random peoples finances? They aren’t family! Or friends you’ve known since primary school! The both of you need to have better friendship boundaries. This is way too much

Also to echo the that he's upset about not messaging on her birthday. The only men who remember my birthday are my partner, close family members, aaaand a couple of men who still hold a candle for me who use it as an excuse to get in touch - many years after they ought to have realised nothing was happening in that direction.

(this is not a stealth boast, I find it weird rather than flattering)

When you say he was a signatory, does they mean he has taken on an official role or that he signed as a witness? I've not got much knowledge of trusts but it would seem odd that he would be highly involved in their financial affairs.

It's also unusual that if he did take on any formal role that he has done nothing for 8 years, then suddenly someone makes contact out of office hours. Surely he would just need to contact relevant people within office hours to get his name off.

Trustees aren’t just family, or long time friends, so that’s not that abnormal. But it sounds like he’s a witness? That comes with 0 responsibilities after the fact unless someone was questioning if there was witnesses which doesn’t seem to be what happened. I’ve been a witness for people who’ve divorced, moved abroad etc and never been needed again. Unless a court is questioning if a document was witnessed there is no more involvement.

I am worried for you @Corneliafunk I worry it did already go further than you think. If so that and the realisation of what he has to lose may be why your husband cut contact. Suddenly being done with relationship. Sarah is vulnerable. Her marriage sounds awful and that’s only what you saw not what happened behind closed doors. It is always worse behind closed doors. Your husband and any man needed to have boundaries. This is a woman who clearly needs some help to not fall into another relationship like that with her husband. She may have little confidence, many fears and think she needs a man to keep her safe etc.

I hope the events you are led to believe are the extent of it, but it sounds like maybe you and dh need to have a very frank and honest conversation about how far it went. Maybe with a counsellor. I have male married friends and there would never ever be playing footsies even as a joke. It’s a red flag. Too too comfortable with one another...

I also think it’s very suspect this random call happened related to his being a witness.

Im afraid for your marriage now OP. Every time you try to you both from this mess your blindsided by your 'DH' being contact again and again. He does not want to withdraw, he is actively engaging with Sarah.

A good solicitor will unravel the finances for Sarah, you KNOW this OP.

I fear you have already lost your DH now 🌺

I agree, she is a toxic friend. She is manipulative and I agree she is lining your DH up to be next. I really hope your marriage can be saved but your DH has to ACTUALLY cut contact, not just pretend to.

He’s upset he can’t text her on her birthday?

Goodness me, OP. I think you are in deep denial about the extent of this.

I agree it's unusual for men to be so upset over loss of contact with a female friend but I also appreciate some men are more sensitive and in touch with their feelings than others

If this is the case with your DH, how did he react when he cut contact with Sarah's DH? Was he devastated then??
Did he sit and worry about how it would look if he didn't send him a happy birthday text??

And before you reply about Sarah's DH being toxic and manipulative etc etc....Sarah sounds just as bad herself!!

It turned out it was another of Sarah's friend's on the phone yesterday (who we know slightly), asking us to look out for Sarah this weekend while she (the friend) is away, as she is so alarmed about Sarah's mental health. My husband told this friend over the phone that we were stepping away because he and Sarah had become too emotionally close. The friend is finding Sarah's situation draining but Sarah's husband is being so abusive that she said can only call him a 'selfish c*t', this from someone who I understand never even swears! So while she would like some respite it won't be happening for a while. She is also v concerned for Sarah's financial state given Sarah knows nothing at all about their complicated sounding financial arrangements.
But today my DH received a phone call from Sarah herself where she was so upset, crying, that he couldn't understand the message - so he went over to see her. The legal property paperwork appears to show that despite paying half of the mortgage repayments, she won't get half of the property. DH told her again that she needs a lawyer (one is booked for next week now) and that he needs to step away because I think he and she were way too close - and that he can understand my feelings. She thinks I misinterpreted stuff and that there was no intent to steal him. Long story short when i got home he told me all of this and believes that there is the potential that I did misinterpret things. I again laid out why there was a lot for me to be concerned about. Eventually he (again) agreed with me. I said he is like a weather vane - turning toward wherever the stronger feeling is coming from. He agrees now (again) that we need to cut contact. I can now see this is going to rumble on for a while to come unfortunately. I haven't been in contact with Sarah again and don't feel inclined to. She wants to keep me as a friend, but I don't see how when I don't trust her.

Open your eyes OP. Close the front door and be too busy to deal with her at all. Good luck, you're going to need it.