break up with family friends? WWYD?

[Corneliafunk]

long time lurker. would welcome your thoughts about a situation I find myself in...
long time friends with 2 young-ish kids now appear to be in a toxic relationship where he emotionally abuses her. My DH and I have been supporting her, even as much as to first identify what was going on as she, (calling her 'Sarah'), hadn't realized how bad it was herself. They have been together 20 years.
They are still sharing a house but of recent times leading separate lives while working out what to do. Sarah has since told a few close others but relies heavily on my husband and i with many texts and impromptu visits over the past 3-4 months during which she is often (understandably) upset.
However, to me it has become apparent over that time that Sarah seems to envisage a future for herself and her children at some point with my husband and our 2 kids. I have spoken a few times to him about this but most recently he has started to say 'are you still going on about this'; and 'I don't see it'. Examples of what I am seeing include: Sarah tells me things, but then tells my husband something different (e.g. before their relationship blew up we all holidayed together and split the bills equally, except when it was her turn to do this with me at the grocery store when she refused. my husband talked to her and of course she then agreed). She has told me she had a previous boyfriend my husband's height (he is only as tall as I am) and it didn't bother her. Always talking about him. Complaining about my husband and I having 'in jokes' that she is excluded from. Things like this. I want to stay friends with her as I like her as a person and I feel for her. I think my husband and i are too closely involved in their troubles. My DH agrees and wants to step away a bit, but no more than this as he sees her as a really good friend. He actively dislikes Sarah's husband now given the behavior we saw on holiday and all the many things Sarah has since told us about him and how he is reacting to their relationship troubles. At another earlier holiday we all had together, before I knew about Sarah relationship problems, I later complained to my husband that I felt boundaries between him (my DH) and her were blurred - they spent so much time together, were rubbing each others legs with their feet under the card table as a joke, frequently bumping shoulders in a playful way, stayed up talking late into the night long after the rest of us went to bed etc. My husband apologized and said he hadn't realized how it looked and at my request also talked to Sarah about my views and she said understood these apparently. Our families are quite meshed together - should we just break up with their family? I am not sure my husband would agree to this. Sarah would also be devastated, at a point when she is already struggling. She is receiving some help but the counselor is so busy Sarah can only get infrequent appointments. Over time we have had different friends move away and these are (or have been) our oldest and closest friends. I make Sarah sound not that nice, but we do actually get on and although I don't need her in my life, I would be sad to see her go as we like doing the same things in our spare time. WWYD?

@AnotherKrampus

Sarah's husband probably has a lot of reasons to loathe his wife. I would wonder whether her shitty behaviour came first or his...

Interesting and a fair point 🤔

The biggest problem is your husband is not acting as a team at all. You have to be a united, shatterproof front. First he says he needs to step back because it's damaging your marriage. This already makes your union look fragile. Then he goes to to her house sans his wife! He shouldn't be making comments about how it's affecting your marriage because that's IMO an open invitation for people to wedge their way in. It's not good enough for just you to step back. He HAS to go no contact. Even if they're not having an affair, you're going to end up even more enmeshed.

He’s not going to cut her off. He dropped everything to go see her against your wishes. She comes before you, I’m sorry but he will cheat soon or leave for her.

Has your husband blocked and deleted (you can do this on my phone)Sarah's number and blocked her friends? That would be the least expect.

Wow. After agreeing to cut contact he went over there??!! Have you asked him straight up while looking in his face if he’s slept with her?

They are not having a bloody affair.

What’s it all about then? Why the rescue fantasy and the dropping everything to act as her Knight in shining armour. What’s with her tears and little woman act that she needs protecting.

The Op has my total, sincerest sympathy. I don’t know how you deal with this. I would go away for a week. It is still possible to book a hotel room somewhere.

Don't want to get sucked into this thread, but it's a bit odd that Sarah's husband is 'so abusive,' yet it's ok for your DH to be round at their's. Obviously he could be at work, but abusive partners tend to control even when they're not physically present.

Any update OP?

@Charley50

Don't want to get sucked into this thread, but it's a bit odd that Sarah's husband is 'so abusive,' yet it's ok for your DH to be round at their's. Obviously he could be at work, but abusive partners tend to control even when they're not physically present.

yes I wondered this 🌺

Thanks for your interest. Sarah and I have never communicated again and I don't expect that we will. I am pretty sure that DH and Sarah haven't been in touch either since he went round to see her that time (which was actually at her work as it isn't far from where his is located). He has said I can go thru his texts with her, but I don't see the point of that.
DH and I had another talk about everything last weekend. He feels like I am just rehashing stuff now to 'punish' him. He was 'naive' in regards to Sarah but no more than that. However as I told him this is the biggest negative thing that has happened to our relationship so it will take some time (for me at least) to get my head around everything.

For me, as I told him, one of the things that stays with me is that my Mum who has dementia stopped recognising me some weeks ago and it was agreed with her facility that I shouldn't see her for some months as a result, as my presence was upsetting her. This was horrible and DH was very empathetic on the day when i first told him, - but the next day and for every one after he never again asked how I was doing with the situation, and I know if positions were reversed I would follow up with him, to check he was ok. Again he agreed with me and said he feels bad that he hadn't thought to do this. I said it was because he was too busy being concerned over Sarah!
I told him I was angry that he knew things were bad between Sarah and her DH but never warned me about this, esp as we went ultimately went on a long holiday as two families together (where I saw firsthand how horrible it was between Sarah and her DH). My husband said this was because he assumed Sarah was texting/communicating to me herself about her situation - which she wasn't. I said he should have asked me or just generally said something to me along the lines of "shame about Sarah and her DH' - but he didn't even do that. He did want me to talk to Sarah as he feels the cut in communication was 'brutal'. But I said what would I say to her -how do you ask someone if they have a thing for your husband?? He recognized it would be difficult.
I believe DH wants his cake and to eat it too - but he says 'it isn't about cake' Huh?? He's just deflecting.
But anyway - now what? We haven't spoken again about the situation and on the surface things are normal, but overall i feel it is like there is a dark stain lurking around our relationship that wasn't there previously, slightly spoiling my contentment and that this whole saga isn't over

OP, get him to block her number, her friends, husband, and pet cats' number now. Otherwise there with be so much more heartache to come for you.

He doesn't need to be in contact with her. For any reason.

I think the darkness underneath is because from all this, you have discovered a fragility in your own relationship that you haven't seen before. He should be instigating blocking her number, finding other solutions so he doesn't have to see her, but he's not.

He needs a wake up call that you will be gone if he continues on this path. You don't have to say anything more, but leave it with him to consider everything he has to loose for the sake of what would probably be a three week relationship before realising he's just jumped ship into shark infested water.

I'm so sorry about your mum. And this horrible situation

I'd ask him to leave for a bit to have some space

Drastic I know, but can you both get new phone numbers so Sarah can't call either of you?

Sarah sounds like one of those women who can't bear to be alone, so no matter how bad their relationship is they never ever leave until they've lined up the next boyfriend. With that type of woman not being choosy with their men is part of why they end up in bad relationships in the first place. I've had a few friends like it. They pick the next one out of who is available in their lives already, since they're not single so can't actively date. It's often a car-crash situation, like it'll be their boss or their partners friend or something. They're not really thinking about if they're right for each other, if he's single or not (and if he's willing to cheat what that says about him), or if he's a good person. All they're thinking is if they find him attractive and that he's the gateway out of their miserable relationship. I agree she'd set her sights on your DH.

I probably wouldn't, because I think a clean break is best under the circumstances, but if you think it would help things between you and your DH you could send Sarah a 'congratulations on your new home' card once she leaves. It sounds like that'll be soon if her husband is asking her to go. Wish her all the best for her future, whilst reiterating that it's best if you don't stay in touch. You could include the phone number for some helplines like Samaritans or Women's Aid or Rape Crisis, whatever you think is appropriate. You could put the web link for finding an accredited counsellor in too. To sort of try to draw a line under it in a 'we don't hate you but we don't want to be in touch' sort of way. Then if you've got new numbers she can't call to thank either of you.

I don't actually believe that stuff about Sarah's counsellor. I don't think they'd take someone on long term who they didn't have time for and couldn't give regular appointments to. They'd know from talking to Sarah that she needed long term support at this time and not occasional sessions. Ethically I think they'd have to recommend Sarah looked elsewhere. Sarah seems manipulative and I think the counsellor situation was one of her ways to get attention from you/your DH.

Sarah is not your friend, she’s a Trojan horse.
She does not respect you in anyway otherwise she wouldn’t behave like this and your ‘D’H’s behavior is appalling too.

Your main priority should be your and your family’s happiness and stability and Sarah is a threat regardless of her problems.
Stop enabling this shameless woman, OP and open your eyes. She’s actively trying to steal your husband and by the sound of it, she might succeed. I would tell her that you know exactly what she’s doing and that you and your family will go no contact with her.
Your DH has to show some respect for his family and no longer keep in touch with her either. If that makes her sad, boohoo, should have thought of that before she actively tried to break up your family unit.

And for you. Some of the responses including mine might sound a bit harsh but I mean well. I hate to see it when a sneaky person is taking advantage of someone who is clearly trying to be helpful and do the right thing and like many other posters, I would hate to see the sneaky person succeed.
Please stop all contact with her, block her on your phone and don’t let her into your home anymore. You don’t even owe her an explanation. Best wishes xxx

Your husband sounds awful, he doesn’t want to hear a bad word against Sarah does he? I can’t believe he was more worried about her fucking marriage than your mother no longer recognising you.
He needs to stop with the ‘naive’ shit too, it’s not naiveity- if it was he be mortified in hindsight, but he isn’t, is he? He’s just trying to get you to shut up about it and quietly get back in your box.
Of course he wants you to startup contact with Sarah again, as you not doing so is making it difficult for them to indulge in their damsel in distress white knight fantasy they are enjoying so much.

Perhaps if your DH stops being her knight in shining armour (sounds like the 'friend' is waiting for your marriage to break down then she has somewhere to go if she leaves hers) she will have the guts to leave her husband. I would say this carry on with your DH is an emotional thrill for her and your DH and so is stopping her from actually leaving her DH.
All the drama from her 'evil' DH going on and on all the saving of her by DH.

So sorry to hear about your mum! Sounds like you're going through so much and DH is doing the opposite of helping things!

Sorry but your most recent post only makes me even more suspicious. She's been confessing to your DH about her marriage problems for years, before the holidays, before the leg rubbing?! And her "controlling" husband witnessed this and just sat back?!

Anyway, accepting this is true. Your DH says he assumed she'd been telling you the same awful things about her marriage. If this was the case, surely he'd have mentioned it to you at some point, even to say "oh poor Sarah is having a hard time, can't believe the things her DH is doing"?

Also if he knew this BEFORE the holidays, why did they still go ahead? If he's such a sensitive guy who is seeing himself as some kinda knight that needs to save defenseless women, why would he holiday with a man that treats his wife so badly? I'm also assuming you have kids who he was happy to let spend 2 entire holidays in this mans company??

However, the final straw for me is the fact that when he (supposedly) found out Sarah had hidden all this info from you and gone running to him, surely that would be a massive wake up call? Surely that's all the evidence he needs to prove you're correct in Sarah's motives??! He should be coming to that conclusion himself and actively cutting off contact to her and telling her it's because HE thinks her behaviour is inappropriate (mot making out it's you with the problem)

@Corneliafunk This is not looking good OP. You need to have another conversation with your DP because as it stands he seems to think that he was just being "naive" and you are the one in the wrong to continue to bring up this conversation as a way to "punish" him. Do not communicate with Sarah at any cost. Sit down with your husband and clearly state that while you feel bad for Sarah and her marriage, your focus and importance is to your own marriage. Tell him that Sarah has been given more importance than needed in your marriage and the focus moving forward is to our own marriage. You and your husband are a unit and you need act as one. Sarah needs emotional and professional help that you both cannot offer. He needs to understand and agree to this. Tell him and make it very clear that moving forward neither of us are going to communicate with Sarah, there will be no meeting with her whether at home or outside, and if she reaches out ... Calls will not be answered. You both let your friends know if asked that you helped as much as you can but she needs professional help that you both cannot offer. If she reaches for help through friends let them know that you guys went out of your way to help but now are choosing to step back to focus on your marriage.

Make it very clear to your husband that you are not doing well at the moment with concerns about your mom and need his attention and care. The focus moving forward is on your marriage and your relationship. If he brings up Sarah and finds reasons to talk or meet her, it would be very clear to you that he puts her welfare above yours and you will not accept that. I am afraid that you will need to spell it out to him in black and white as it seems like he is not accepting any responsibility and will look for ways to meet her and then come up for excuses. You need to draw the line in the sand that is very clear to both of you so if ( and when) he crosses it there is no way for him to try and gaslight you into thinking it's all innocent and "naive" on his part.

Are you sure he’s not in contact with her still?

Im so sorry OP 😔