AIBU to not help out with money?

[TroublesomeTrucks]

As background, DH and I have separate finances, I know MN don't tend to like it but he's been stung in previous relationships but is also terrible with money and so has a poor credit score. Keeping things separate suits him and suits me because I keep my credit rating and have a rainy day fund to bail us out as a family when needed and we both know our individual financial responsibilities. We earn similar amounts.

The issue now is that, because he's self employed, he has his tax bill for the year. It is more than he expected and he's really worried about paying it. He has put nothing aside over the last year and has also spent the whole of a modest inheritance. (We both have kept working during the pandemic.) Over the last 5 years he has also slightly changed his job with no planning or discussion with me to one that is significantly lower paying and has gradually reduced the number of days he works to one a week, again with no input from me. I have increased my hours and my contribution to the mortgage but it is not enough to offset the drop in his earnings, hence the problem with the tax bill. He probably earns the same as me doing one day a week as I do working full time.

We have recently started building an extension, which I am paying for alone, but now seems the height of foolishness given the issue with his income. Had we not done it, I could pay his tax bill from my savings with plenty to spare but now I can't. I don't have access to his financial information so I didn't know how bad it was, but he was aware of the planned building work and agreed we'd go ahead.

I could help out with the tax bill, but I don't feel it's my responsibility. He choses to work one day a week, and knows his financial obligations. He could easily increase his work as his job is in short supply. He also has a vanity car (plus another car for regular use) he can sell to cover the majority of the bill.

Obviously if it comes down to us potentially losing the house or having bailiffs round, I will pay up, but I don't want him to think he can be this financially irresponsible and I'll just bail him out when this situation is entirely by his choice. He is very very worried though.

AIBU?

presumably the tax bill arises form when he was working more - but he must have known it was there - even if not the exact amount, a broad assessment of "I have earned X, so will need to pay around y% tax' - it can't have been a complete surprise!

@doubleleopardy yes, all appropriately adjusted but thank you for the suggestion.

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay no, tax is from current work but yes, he should have known a tax bill would be coming.

You are paying more than you should though if you pay proportionally from your salary-if for example you both pay 50% in order to keep everything afloat. Whilst your contributions have gone up because of your hard work, his have gone down, for the lack of it...

However, it’s not quite that either, as you are paying 100% for the extension as well, which he will have 50% of the enjoyment/equity of

Surely as a long time SE person he would just put 25% away from earnings!

It seems his income dropped but he didn't reduce his spending just stopped saving for his tax bill. Where did he think he was going to get the tax money from if he wasn't saving it?

As he needs to reduce his expenditure if he doesn't want to work more selling his vanity car is the obvious choice, save on road tax and insurance as well.

Don’t pay his tax bill. He needs to contact HMRC and agree a payment schedule - I hate to give you extra responsibility but can you make sure he does this so it doesn’t escalate.

Can you also have a conversation with him about organising his finances so he doesn’t get into this state ie putting money away and working a bit more.

As I say I hate to give you more responsibility but he is probably not going to do it and the stress will impact on you. Make sure he steps up the housework too.

Its very hard if he has MH problems. I think he needs to sell the vanity car. Maybe this will hit home and help concentrate his working decisions.

@partyatthepalace it has happened every year we have been together. The bill has always been paid but this is there first time I have been in a position to help. I hate the stress of it but it doesn't change no matter how much advice I give, which is why I've disengaged - although I feel mean for it. I also hate the stress, but I can't physically force him to sort it, so my approach is to leave him to it and keep enough savings as an emergency fund, so I know it can be sorted, even if he doesn't.

I’d be asking why he thinks he can work for one day when you’re working full time. Surely any reasonable person would offer to work at least one extra day so that you could work part time? I would be permanently seething with resentment.

It’s just completely unacceptable. He needs to sell his car and you need to stand up to him and have more self respect.

Tbh you have both been in a fortunate position that you have been able to carry on earning through this pandemic
All our jobs went as soon as the first lockdown was announced.
Dh is physically ill and probably won’t get better so isn’t working/won’t work again Adult dc have applied for many jobs and if they are lucky get rejection letters mostly they don’t hear anything more. They are picking up a few days here and there and I have my own MH issues and have been paying 100% of everything including dc’s car insurances and phones when they haven’t been able to work.
The question is if you weren’t able to work would your dh step up and keep everything running?
You are saying he brings home the same as you if he only does 1 day per week. That would put him on a £300,000 yearly wage.
But can’t afford to pay the mortgage or make all the monthly bills.
If he is so bad with money I would suggest that he is wasting a lot of money by not looking at outgoings and using comparison sites to get the bills down as low as they can be.

Whilst I don’t think it is terrible that you both have separate finances but I do think the problem lies with the fact he by your own admission is terrible with money and you have him in charge of saving for his tax bill and paying the household bills,
As a comparison our household bills, including insurance and tax on 2 vehicles is under £700 per month. £100-£120 per week shopping (including pet food etc)
The question is where else is the money being spent
It doesn’t really add up and maybe if you sat down with him and put down everything you are spending then he can either start to make savings or realise that he can’t have everything and he needs to get back to work.

I'm not going to berate your DH or your choice yo stay with him.

It sounds as though your financial arrangement broadly works for you, that there are solid reasons for him not working at full throttle and that he contributes pretty fairly to family life, and, over the longer term, finances.

That said, the tax bill is something he could and should have budgeted for. It's not remotely unexpected and the fact he can't pay it is something he really needs to take ownership of.

Going forward, I think you need more insight into his finances and decision making wrt money and jobs...the fact he's not being entirely straight with you is more of an issue than the money per se, I think, buy not insurmountable if he's willing to make the effort and work with you to address the remaining issues he has in this area.

I think many people really don't understand the correlation between mental health issues and poor money management. He's a very lucky man to have such an understanding and supportive partner, and I hope you manage to get things sorted.

He can’t afford to work one day a week - if he could, he would have enough to pay the tax bill.

So say you earn £25k a year working 5 days a week and he earns £25k a year working one day a week, just as an example?

I would offer to cover it on this occasion (if you can afford it) with a list of conditions:

1. He increases his days to 3 days a week
2. You decrease your days to 3 days a week
3. Mortgage and renovations are a joint expense, contributions proportionate to your salary
4. Calculate his tax and NI bill on his new days and add 10%. Divide by 12. That amount goes into a separate joint savings account that you can see, by standing order on the day he is paid.
5. He pays you back an agreed amount per month to replenish your savings

Why is he living this easy life with almost no working while you work full time and share the home schooling and do at least half the housework?

I would be livid and he would either be agreeing to the above or I would be getting a divorce. The absolute nerve of it.

but I can't physically force him to sort it, so my approach is to leave him to it and keep enough savings as an emergency fund, so I know it can be sorted, even if he doesn't

I think this is sensible @TroublesomeTrucks

"He is very very worried though."

He's playing you...
Can you really not see that you're getting such a raw deal here?
Maybe you both need to sit down and rethink the whole way you work out finances in a fair way, based on current situation and not when you previously agreed the arrangement?
In your shoes, I'd be possibly looking at whether you could both work say three days a week each to make it fairer. This should result in a higher income over all, and increase both your quality of life/work balance and probably the amount of money available per week.
Really, with mental health issues, if he can work one day a week, surely he could work two or three?
Develop the 'team' ethos, even if you continue to have separate finances. I think how he perceives his previous relationships is a red herring- and probably not relevant at all, given you have children together which changes so much. Are there any children from the previous relationships?

There are a lot of useful points here. I'm not ignoring any of them, but I have now been drinking so I want to consider them when sober and respond tomorrow. I hope that's ok.

[quote TroublesomeTrucks]@partyatthepalace it has happened every year we have been together. The bill has always been paid but this is there first time I have been in a position to help. I hate the stress of it but it doesn't change no matter how much advice I give, which is why I've disengaged - although I feel mean for it. I also hate the stress, but I can't physically force him to sort it, so my approach is to leave him to it and keep enough savings as an emergency fund, so I know it can be sorted, even if he doesn't.[/quote]
If you are otherwise happy in the marriage and with the overall finances and who pays what I understand why this one thing isn’t a dealbreaker. Try not to feel guilty so much - he doesn’t feel guilty watching you work 5 times as much as he does. If this drama happens every year he needs to solve this. Maybe he can enter into a debt repayment plan for the overdue amount and work an extra day to pay that and to also dedicate that extra day’s income to save for the next tax bill.

So he could add over £130k to your annual household income by working three days a week, and he’s beside himself about £24k worth of costs? That’s 20 days work for him.

You can definitely help him with the bill, by sitting down with him and listen to him work through HIS options of how to pay for HIS bill. As far as I can see they are 1) work more hours, or b) sell vanity car. I really can't see any other solutions.

This will flush out of the woodwork if he expects 3) you pay the bill for him.

You can also discuss how he got into this pickle and how he plans to avoid this happening again next year.

Don't offer solutions. Just listen and ask him what he plans to do about it. It's the only way to help him.

it has happened every year we have been together. The bill has always been paid but this is there first time I have been in a position to help. I hate the stress of it but it doesn't change no matter how much advice I give

Every year he does the same thing. He get the tax bill and worries about it and stresses you out and every year he manages to pay it. He probably hopes each year you will step in but as you don’t have any money he then pays up. This year he might try harder as he might realise you have the money.

I have a very low boredom threshold so this would piss me off so much.

You have chosen to have children with a financially incompetent man. You will never be able to relax because he's shown you that you can never rely on his income because he can decide on a whim not to work and not to earn.

You shouldn't feel guilty that you're not paying the tax for the £125k he earned working one day a week when you're working 5 days a week and making £66k net.

The only person who is suffering right now is you. He's not really worried. If he were, he would have put cash away. But he knew he didn't need to because if the shit hit the fan, you'd bail him out because you always do.

You're not his wife, you're his mother.

YABU for bailing out someone who has put themselves in this situation. If he can work more to sort his finances why should you step in when you already work full time? He needs to step up to his responsibilities as a husband and father instead of sponging off others. That means being on top of his finances and not leaving his family open to financial disaster (what if you lost your job or couldn't work through ill health?!)

This is a man who earns a six figure salary working one day a week. He's not an idiot and this isn't a surprise. He's done this for years.

He doesn't need the OP to sit down and explain how it works to him. He knows. He just doesn't care.

Where is your fury OP? What is there to love about a man who puts you and your children in such a financially precarious position by choice. Why aren't you protecting them from this crap?

These fey men are all very well when you're a teenager but they make bloody rubbish dads.

Well he doesn't like helping himself does he? He's stressed and doesn't share finances because he's been stung in the past - seems like he screws himself over and stresses himself out every year. I couldn't live like that. I'm shit with money but I've never had a completely expected bill and not be able to pay it.

I don't think you should pay it OP. I think he should make more of an effort to be financially responsible.

What you can do, for your own sake, is organise him to do one simple thing that should ensure that this doesn't continue to happen. Which is set up a standing order to go out every month on the day after he's paid, to a limited access savings account, which will cover his tax.

I know you shouldn't have to do it, but it would take ten minutes and save you the worry of his worry this time every year.

I've skimmed the thread, my DH is also self employed but every invoice he's paid, 20% goes into a separate acct for the end of year bill. Any excess we take as dividends.

Completely appreciate he's put in 140k deposit, I assume this was the inheritance? If so YANBU to not help out, he won't ask for money in a general sense because, as you've stayed you'll pick up the slack... Extension etc. He's sat waiting for you to bail him out.

YANBU, OP. Please don’t spend your rainy day fund to bail him out, he is a wannabe cocklodger.

I’m the same as you. I earn less than DH but we have separate savings account as he fritters money away and I don’t want him to have access to my savings. However he does contribute more to the mortgage and bills.