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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Marilyn Manson

343 replies

Lychee234 · 03/02/2021 21:00

Just wondered what people's thoughts were following the allegations.
I do think it's awful he's effectively been sacked from all employment before having been found guilty of any allegations.

OP posts:
TheMoth · 04/02/2021 15:21

I think it's interesting that the two women who say he didn't abuse them(McGowan and teese) are similar in age to him. Not that age matters if you're an abuser, but I wonder if he found it easier to keep on pushing boundaries with a younger woman. Especially one brought up in the weird world of a child actor.

The nightmare I lived with in my early 20s had exes who were all psychos (of course he did!) But he was 10 years older than me and v different to the students I wasused to. Much of his behaviour in our rship I put down to my inexperience with 'real' men.

Years later, he had another young g friend and a mutual friend asked if he'd ever been 'a bit rough' with me, because he worried about the girl. I suspect he deliberately went young because it made him feel better about himself.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 04/02/2021 15:50

Tinkerbell id recommend reading a book called Gift Of Fear. It's quite frightening how an abuser will select and lovebomb his target before starting on a methodical cycle of abuse. Every single stage of it is done deliberately to create dependance.

Cadent · 04/02/2021 15:51

@IndecentCakes

You: Dita Von Teese seems very dignified and admirable in all this. Glad she walked out on him.

Me: What's dignified? Keeping silent instead of speaking out like Wood?

You: It is her right to not speak (publically or at all) though. She might not want to, it might be very upsetting, humiliating - any number of reasons.

That's not the point I was making. You're implying that ERW isn't dignified because she what, has spoken up? Didn't leave MM quickly enough to suit you?

Brefugee · 04/02/2021 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Quotes deleted post.

IHaveBrilloHair · 04/02/2021 15:53

@Clymene
Armie Hammer is blonde, at least he is in CMBYN.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 04/02/2021 16:35

In some senses I find it heartening. The response to the stories about Armie Hammer (lord, what a name!) and now this story give me hope that #TimesUp might actually be a possibility.

Disheartened, because the OP minimises what he's done and the inevitable, sickening victim blamers are out in force as ever on a thread detailing the abusive of women by men. They disgust me. Ugh, knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread.

Hellothere19999 · 04/02/2021 16:38

Hahahaha thanks @IHaveBrilloHair I really wasn’t sure how to reply to that comment apart from what does that have to do with the fact he’s a fuckin rapist! They’re both grim sex abusers and I bet Hollywood is rife with them, it’s just interesting who gets outed when and who gets downplayed by the media, was my original point. As a previous poster said, Armie Hammer can still make some people some money so they’re trying to get him forgotten about I believe.

Hellothere19999 · 04/02/2021 16:38

As Rose McGowan said, Hollywood is a cult.

Hellothere19999 · 04/02/2021 16:41

@MarieIVanArkleStinks if you want abit of hope I would think of the future prevention of sexual abuse in Hollywood that these women coming forward is creating. I believe Hollywood is a fucked up place but the more women come forward and say “this happened and it was wrong”, the less acceptable it will become for these disgusting men to manipulate women.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 04/02/2021 16:44

I would think of the future prevention of sexual abuse in Hollywood that these women coming forward is creating.

Amen. I salute every one of them for their courage. And it does take courage; they know what they are risking. Just look at the treatment meted out to Amber Heard.

itispersonal · 04/02/2021 16:44

@ChristOnAPeloton

I was a big fan in my yoof. None of it surprised me in the slightest. He’s completely fucked in the head.
Never really a fan. But he/ his persona was never a "normal person". Drink and drugs were obvious in his life and his performances. Raunchy videos He's been a mess for over a decade.

I'm surprised they haven't called it 'kink', Definitely a grooming issue with Evan Wood, but a bit like Johnny depp etc You need to be going into the relationship with your eyes wide open. Though power, money, grooming causes a lot of sweeping issues under the carpet.

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/02/2021 16:45

Not really surprised. The groupie culture around a singer who made a name off being dark and dangerous with S&M vibes. Clearly known to host drug fuelled parties that involved dares and self harm (drink your own blood). It’s no secret that he coerced young adoring fans into these activities. I think most famous men in Los Angeles were like that then, and many still are.

WeeWelshWoman · 04/02/2021 16:48

I was a fan as a teen because I thought it was all an act. Or if he did like BDSM, it was consensual and with people his own age.

It's been clear for a while that is it not an act and he has groomed and abused women and girls.

user1471565182 · 04/02/2021 16:49

I dont think its ok to say 'its obvious just by looking at him hes vile'. Look at the way Slipknot dress, but Corey Taylor in particula strikes me as a very decent person.

Hellothere19999 · 04/02/2021 17:01

@MarieIVanArkleStinks totally! It’s groundbreaking for women everywhere!

BlueTimes · 04/02/2021 17:03

I do agree with guilty until proven innocent. However, I have no doubt everyone around MM knew/know of his behaviour and keeping quiet enabled him. He has been dropped so they can try to salvage part of their reputation. It’s like Harvey Weinstein, those around him all know. Absolutely hiding in plain sight and getting away with so much due to money and power.

Glittertwins · 04/02/2021 17:05

I've commented on a other thread on this subject - I've also read his autobiography and it was quite sick and disturbing at the time. I've got rid of it out of the house as I wouldn't want our children reading it although they both quite like the music and I've seen the band as it was originally too. I wouldn't be surprised if he was hiding in plain sight.

ringydinghy · 04/02/2021 17:17

YANBU
It is sad nowadays how easily some women can ruin mens careers; if they ever dislike a man or get jealous its so easy to make up a false story for money and have their name blackened forevermore. It happened with Craig Charles. Cliff Richard. Johnny Depp.

Not automatically defending Marilyn Manson of course but I take his accusers' claims with no trust whatsoever.

TheMoth · 04/02/2021 17:23

Oh behave, ringydinghy.

knittingaddict · 04/02/2021 17:39

Are you saying that you don't believe MM accusers ringydinghy? Just want to be clear.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 04/02/2021 17:58

It is sad nowadays how easily some women can ruin mens careers; if they ever dislike a man or get jealous its so easy to make up a false story

What about all the men who have abused then ruined women? And how many convicted abusers and rapists still have their careers? Also Cliff wasn't accused by a woman.

Interesting that 10 women can accuse one man of assault, and they aren't believed, one man accuses 10 women of lying and its enough to cast instant doubt on the women though. Almost like its a man's world really.

LillyFlower1984 · 04/02/2021 18:13

Well just look at him...
I know you should never judge a book by it’s cover, but that’s one book that I wouldn’t bother opening!

FoxyTheFox · 04/02/2021 18:14

It is sad nowadays how easily some women can ruin mens careers; if they ever dislike a man or get jealous its so easy to make up a false story for money and have their name blackened forevermore

Their careers are rarely ruined or their name blackened forevermore, even convicted rapists and abusers are readily forgiven and a blind eye turned to their actions if they just so happen to be famous, rich, and/or good at their job. Look at all the people who defend the likes of Mike Tyson or John Lennon or Roman Polanski or Woody Allen and spout rubbish like "you have to separate the art from the man" or "they're a product of the culture they were living in". For every piece of shit abuser, there will hundred of cheerleaders trying to convince us it was A Mistake and that they are A Nice Guy and that the woman is either A Liar or Just As Bad.

NotFabulousDarling · 04/02/2021 18:19

I feel like this thread perfectly sums up why so many of these bastards get away with it for so long. People on here not even checking what's been said/done before piling on to say the women somehow should have known he was going to abuse them or that they've made it up.
I bet the people victim blaming or accusing them of lying are the same people who tell women on the relationships boards to "get marital counselling" or "try harder to see his point of view" when they're asking for advice on leaving abusers.
He even admitted to some of it and people still are defending him or pretending that's not what he meant.

OutComeTheWolves · 04/02/2021 18:20

@ringydinghy

YANBU It is sad nowadays how easily some women can ruin mens careers; if they ever dislike a man or get jealous its so easy to make up a false story for money and have their name blackened forevermore. It happened with Craig Charles. Cliff Richard. Johnny Depp.

Not automatically defending Marilyn Manson of course but I take his accusers' claims with no trust whatsoever.

Yes I often sit and weep for those poor men of Hollywood forced onto the dole because of some harlot's lies. So sad that we're moving towards a time where woman are sometimes believed - thank god it's only very occasionally though!

Just kidding. My sympathy lies entirely with people like RM who has essentially lost her career, had her mental health brought into question and her reputation dragged through the mud for daring to speak out. The same for Corey Feldman and probably countless others too.