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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To let my child go to bed hungry

219 replies

Bettyblue2 · 13/01/2021 18:45

To cut a long story short, my nearly 4 year old has started testing the waters at dinner time by gradually eating less and less of her dinner and then asking for cereal/toast before bed. We’ve tried pushing dinner back so that it’s closer to bedtime to make sure she’s hungry, cutting back on afternoon snacks, giving her options of what she want for dinner... but it’s not working. Basically she just faffs about at dinner time, she won’t sit at the table properly, plays with her food until most of it is on the floor/table etc. Then she complains about being hungry at bed time. We end up wasting so much. Tonight, I’ve stood my ground and said she can’t have anything else to eat today (I warned her at dinner time when she left most of her food that there would be nothing else before bedtime). She’s having a massive tantrum, holding her stomach and saying she’s hungry and that she won’t be able to sleep. I feel horrible at the thought of her being hungry but if I give in and give her food then the cycle starts again. Any tips?

OP posts:
MedusasBadHairDay · 14/01/2021 12:05

Apparently he eats really well at nursery, eats everything they give him and asks for seconds

DS was the same, it was so frustrating knowing that he could and did eat properly, just not for us.

NameChange30 · 14/01/2021 12:06

Yes it's annoying but also reassures me that he is getting some nutrition on nursery days at least!

Nancylovesthecock · 14/01/2021 12:12

@CoolCatTaco

This is so depressing. People falling over each other to brag about how tough they are on a small child.
Agreed. Competitive meanness.

Children are people too. I wouldn't eat a dinner I didn't like, I'd make toast or cereal instead. Why would you force a child to eat a dinner they don't like?

Nancylovesthecock · 14/01/2021 12:14

infantandtoddlerforum.org/toddlers-to-preschool/portion-sizes-for-toddlers/toddler-portion-sizes-table/

If they eat well throughout the day that's all that matters.

mum133566 · 14/01/2021 12:17

This is really cruel 😞 she’s hungry ! She might not like the dinner you made I’m sure she’ll grow out of being fussy. At least offer something like bread and butter or a banana ,something plain and not exciting then she won’t think there’s something better she can have if she doesn’t eat dinner.

Beamur · 14/01/2021 12:17

@Draineddraineddrained
Sure. It's not the same thing.
But, despite the meal planning you do have agency to have something else if you really wanted to.
There is a big difference between the 'clear your plate' mentality - which in itself could be born from anxiety around food availability and totally lax, 'eat whatever you like'.
Two out of the three children I have/do feed (DD & 2 SC) are very sensitive to textures and flavours the other much less so. Both DD and DSD have very specific palates - they're not being difficult or manipulative around food, but if offered something that they don't like they will genuinely prefer to be hungry. I don't want to make food a battle and I don't want them growing up, hating meal times and resenting the experience. For them, food is fuel.
I know for some people, it's just kids trying it on, but for some, it isn't.

mum133566 · 14/01/2021 12:18

@Nancylovesthecock

Definitely and I could never send my child to bed if I knew they had no dinner and we’re crying with hunger poor thing 😞

00100001 · 14/01/2021 12:48

@Nancylovesthecock

But what happens when child refuses all meals and only eats toast. ?

Draineddraineddrained · 14/01/2021 12:57

@Beamur

SEN is a totally different kettle of fish. But there's nothing in the OP's post which indicates that is at play. For most parents in this situation it's not a case of giving kids something they "don't like" either - by nearly 4 you've got a good idea what your kids do and don't like - it's just that suddenly food they've always been happy eating gets rejected. Which is annoying when you've planned a pretty unadventurous family menu around food that you "know" from experience they will eat only to have them reject it and demand bread and butter instead.

It actually IS about control - in both directions! Yes I have agency over what I end up making, but I exercise self control and I don't go off plan just because I feel like it, or tbh all I'd end up eating most of the time would be pizza. Yes she has agency over what she accepts, but she doesn't get to decide what's on offer, or we'd get through 4 loaves of bread a week and she'd have scurvy.

I think it's safe to say it wouldn't be sensible to let kids eat whatever they want whenever they want, it's been proven how addictive certain ratios of sugar to fat in foods are even to adults so little kids have no chance of resisting. Forced feeding is horrible and abusive; but letting your small kid live on toast and cereal just because they want to, and not doing what you can to ensure they get an adequately diverse diet, in the absence of SEN, is pretty neglectful imo. All these people saying "she's tiny" and "how cruel" don't seem to understand one's approach to eating is habit, formed in early childhood and very difficult to break out of. Failing to put the work in as a parent when they're young to form good habits can lead to health problems, deficiencies and a rigid, limited palate.

HeadIsFucked · 14/01/2021 12:58

I would say YANBU, though I know how horrible it makes you feel due to DD going through this phase once in a while.

It would be unreasonable if you were, for example, making something she doesn't like/know for a meal then not letting her have anything else. I know a few parents who do this (well they need to get used to it, thats what I am making for me so thats what they are having, etc) and it comes off as cruel to me, I wouldn't eat what I don't like, so why should the kids do so..but if its just general fannying and child does like it, then yeah I would (and have) do this. Sometimes though, if I am worried she has not had enough all day I will give a piece of fruit for supper. Which she tends to nibble then leave as its the cereal/buttery toast that she actually wants, its not about hunger with her really, its about getting something she prefers. Which is human nature really but very annying to deal with sometimes!

Draineddraineddrained · 14/01/2021 13:01

I say this as someone who would get emotionally rewarded for clearing my plate as a child (regardless of whether what was on it was any good for me or not) - this combined with periods of food scarcity when my alcoholic single parent dad didn't ensure my sister and I were fed properly has led to a lifelong association with food as love/comfort and binge eating habits when under stress.

Bettyblue2 · 14/01/2021 13:01

As I said in the OP, she’s always given options for her dinner, I would never give my kids something I know they don’t like because I know it will be wasted. I understand there are different views on these things and that there will always be people who disagree but I am genuinely interested in those who say “just give her what she’s asking for” (I.e a snack before bed when she hasn’t eaten her dinner). Do you apply that in all areas? If your child decides to only eat biscuits, is it cruel to say “no, you need to eat something nutritious”? Isn’t that control as well by the same standard? I’m genuinely not trying to be being pedantic, I’m just interested in this view because it’s not how I was brought up and I wonder how it works in practice/where the lines are drawn.

OP posts:
RainingBatsAndFrogs · 14/01/2021 13:06

There is a big difference between re-offering food that you know they like but declined to eat earlier, and using it in a punitive way, standing over them hissing "and this will be put in front of you at every meal time until you do eat it!"

Just re-offer the dinner in a pleasant and generous style.

And if there is a fuss say "cereal is for breakfast, we need to save it for then" "This is the food we have left now - lucky we like it!"

Tiredness accounts for a lot of slow and fussy eating.

Would cutting the afternoon snack but eating her tea earlier work?

And then milk before bed?

Bettyblue2 · 14/01/2021 13:14

I completely agree that it is cruel to stand over a child and tell them that they have to eat everything on their plate; totally unnecessary and damaging behaviour. Reminds me of Bruce Bogtrotter in Matilda with the chocolate cake (gag)

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 14/01/2021 14:04

@Draineddraineddrained

This business about leftovers is so daft. I mean what can you really do to s plate of food (bar chewing it and spitting it out) that renders it inedible forevermore?

To be frank, in our house we do NOT waste food so if the 4yo doesn't eat what's put on her plate someone will - usually my DP who is a (irritatingly skinny!) bottomless pit. Is he being cruelly abused/cruelly abusing himself eating her leftover "dried out/congealed" leftovers? (FYI they're not, they're fine. We're talking meat/fish and vegetables or some sort of a stew/mince dish here, they don't go toxic if left covered over in the fridge a few hours - what the hell are people cooking that can't be eaten after being on a plate for that length of time?? I mean it's not like we'd reheat scrambled eggs Hmm).

OP we're having the same issue with our nearly 4yo at the moment - nothing you're doing, it must be a phase for the age!

I do wonder if it's out schedule as so many people seem to feed their young kids dinner and get them to bed really early (eating at 5, asleep by 7) - but she's never been much of a sleeper, goes down at 8ish so we all sat dinner together at 6 - it's important to me that we eat together as a family and that we eat the same thing - roughly - we toddlerise a lot of our meals for her as she has a thing about "mixed food", so we'll be eating say a veggie pasta bake and she'll have the veggies roasted separately, plain pasta and the sauce and cheese on the side in little bowls - you can see what a cruel hardarsed mummy I am! Grin).

Her thing is she will almost always eat her carbs first then claim she's "full" and start arsing around - making a racket with her cutlery, jumping up and down from the table for cuddles, going off to the playroom and bringing toys back to the table, crawling around under the table etc. Bloody annoying!

We've tried various things around this, but these things have been the most effective (like most people we're only human so can only be 100% consistent on a good day!):

  1. do not allow her to disrupt our meal. I tell her if she's done eating and doesn't want to sit nicely and talk to us she can go to play in the playroom (next door). She hates that because what she's after is attention, which I'll happily give her if she sits with us and talks to us but I'm not going to stop eating before in finished to dick around on the floor with her. So she'll usually at least come back and sit at the table for a chat, which opens the door to her potentially finishing her meal. The flip side of this is that if she's at the table eating and/or behaving nicely, she gets our full and undivided attention. I personally like flipping through a cook book at the table at mealtimes, but soon realised the nights I was doing this her behaviour was far worse - which made me aware I was actually being quite rude, using our family time to amuse myself. So I've stopped.

  2. smaller carb portions/splitting her carb option in two and giving her half at the beginning of the meal and half at the end.

  3. no more snacks in the day except fruit/veg sticks. She'll by and large refuse this option so is pretty much on three meals a day now. If she eats all her lunch (which is a much less problematic meal usually) she is offered a sweet treat (yoghurt, biscuit, small piece of cake or similar) and will usually snap this up. But between meals, it's fruit/veg or nothing. We've been trying this for a week or so now and dinner time is much easier.

  4. I never ever make/bribe her to eat anything. Because it's attention, and that's what she wants. She is entitled to control her own intake. But I am her mother and have to make sure that a good proportion of what she does eat is nutritious, not just empty carbs to fill her up. We've talked about protein, veggies, carbs and fats, and how they are all important and do different things for her body but she needs to eat some of all of them to grow up strong. She knows which foods fall into which groups. She knows sweet things are treat things. We'll get there in the end!

If all the above fails, she doesn't eat her dinner and then claims to be hungry later, I will either offer her her leftovers again (awful awful parent 😆) or if she genuinely doesn't like it (i.e. she has to have tried it) or her dad has already snaffled it, she can have the dreaded banana. She usually opts for hunger. If she's barely eaten anything all day then I might unbend and give her a bit of toast, but as others have said this is her go to favourite food and not particularly nutritious or filling, so I try not to or she'd never eat anything else. I refuse to feel bad about her going to bed hungry if she's been presented with perfectly acceptable options - that's not taking her power away, it's giving her choices, including the option to make what I think to be a bad choice.

She's just trying to exert a little power, which I see no need to stamp on but she needs to understand that the power to make her own choices does not equate to power over me or her dad.

Hope we both get there OP! The main thing is to take the emotion out of it - it strikes us at the heart as parents as we feel so responsible to make sure they are well fed with good food - but as others have said, connecting food with feelings, particularly feelings of obligation/guilt/shame/comfort, is a really bad idea as I know to my cost. It's just food. To be taken or left. Manners around mealtimes are more important (for all of the family!)

This is such a sensible post. It's how I try to approach it too.
Porcupineintherough · 14/01/2021 14:08

When mine where little refusing to eat dinner was far more about being tired, or not hungry, or wanting to play than it was about the food on offer. So they would quite happily eat the same meal later/the next day.

Beamur · 14/01/2021 14:20

@Draineddraineddrained
I mostly agree with you. But I think we just approach this slightly differently.
My girls don't have SEN. Food texture issues are not exclusively a SEN issue. DH won't eat food which is too wobbly and wet as he describes it!
I also had the experience growing up of being required to eat dinner, whether wanted or liked. My Mum was a single parent for years with very little money and couldn't afford me to be fussy plus Grandparents with serious food hoarding problems (post war chronic food anxiety) who hugely overcompensated subsequently and were both feeders and massively overweight.
As a recovered bulimic myself I really will not get into battles over food with the kids. They are all healthy, with good attitudes to food and treats. DD is still anxious around unfamiliar food but eats a healthy range of stuff and never over eats or comfort eats. To me, that's much more important than waste.
I'm commenting to this as a wider issue. Not just the OP's question.

MedusasBadHairDay · 14/01/2021 14:43

Children are people too. I wouldn't eat a dinner I didn't like, I'd make toast or cereal instead. Why would you force a child to eat a dinner they don't like?

For us it was never that DS didn't like the food, he just wanted sweets instead, or to play, or put off bedtime..

Offering him different healthy food didn't help, giving him more time to eat didn't help. The only thing that did work was taking the food away and letting him get hungry.

FWIW he's now a healthy 8yo who eats well and has no food issues. OP it will get better and easier.

Nancylovesthecock · 14/01/2021 16:11

[quote 00100001]@Nancylovesthecock

But what happens when child refuses all meals and only eats toast. ?[/quote]
@00100001

I would give toast with things to try on the side and a vitamin tablet every day. No pressure.

It will pass

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