To not let DH talk DS out of applying to Durham Uni?

[cruddled]

I grew up local to Durham University but never considered applying back in the late eighties because I had a stereotyped view of it as being 'posh' and filled with 'Oxbridge rejects' from private schools. Whether or not it was true at the time, it was certainly a widespread view. My DH grew up in Yorkshire and had the same negative opinion of it. We were both first-generation university applicants and both ended up at other Russell Group universities in the north of England, then moved to Greater London for work, which is where we met and have lived ever since.

Now our DS1 in year 12 is thinking of putting Durham as one of his UCAS choices and seems quite keen on the idea. DH is less keen and has privately suggested we talk him out of it, but only because of his past prejudice. I disagree. I know there was a very negative story in the news recently because some students certainly did live up to the stereotype (www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-durham-university-students-19131519), but I'm generous enough to assume they are in the minority and that the university has otherwise moved on a bit.

Please tell me I'm right and that Durham is now at least comparable with other 'top' universities for inclusivity.

DS graduated from there in 2010. There was a "rah" contingent (as they were apparently known) but he managed to avoid them and make lots of interests-based, regular sort friends. Some of the constituent colleges were more uninclusive than others iirc.
Other posters may have more up to date information. But honestly, why not let your son decide?

My DH graduated from Durham in 1995, he's from the northeast and was brought up in a 2 bed council flat in an old mining village.

He'll be fine

If UCAS forms are still the same as in ‘my day’ (some time during the Jurassic era) then Durham will be just one of his choices because you select a number of potential places. He may get an offer or interview and decide against it - or not. It is his decision and his alone.

I went to Durham, State school background, from the north east originally. Never for a moment felt out of place (though if you’re posh and want to stay that way it’s not hard). Made incredible friends from all walks of life, had a brilliant time. Cost of living wise it’s a very very good choice.

Isn't there an issue with lad/rape culture there? Or is that somewhere else and I'm getting mixed up?

I don't think that stereotype - whether it's true or not - is unique to Durham. Certainly it was the view held about places like Bristol, York, Edinburgh etc when I was applying to uni back in the day.

I went to Sunderland University my friend went to Durham she invited me and my boyfriend (a Sunderland local) to a social event, we had to leave after an hour because it was very very 'rah' and a lot of the students were very vocal in their views of the North East locals. I do understand they will not all be like that but there certainly is a large number who are. This was in the mid naughties.

Selection of college is key to finding your tribe at Durham, so I'd advise encouraging your DS to visit some to get a sense of where he'd feel most comfortable.

I'd recommend going to one of the Hill colleges.

I think it still has its posh contingent but so does Newcastle, Bristol etc - but not everyone is.

I’d tell your DP to cop on - no harm in DS learning to manage poshos as part of life’s rich tapestry. And he’s gotta be his own man.

It's no different, but you can find a non rah group. But they are very evident. But not worth putting your DC off applying.

Lots of universities have rahs though. I went to Edinburgh - loads of them, but plenty more ordinary people as well. You find your tribe when you get there.

And sadly a lot of places have huge rape/lad culture problems. Durham is one that was recently in the news, but so was Warwick.

Comprehensive girl here from working class family and I was at Durham from 1998-2002. There are definitely plenty of those people of the stereo type but there are plenty of other groups of people too. I found lots of friends who were similar to me and had a great time. Agree with previous posts though, best to apply to the hill colleges (Van Mildert, Trevs, Mary’s, Collingwood) as they’re more down to Earth. The students I met at Castle, Hatfield and Cuths in particular were very ‘rah’

What does "rah" mean?

Your DH would be totally unreasonable to interfere in your DS s choice

Are you sure he'd stick out as much as you feel you would have thought? You were Northern first generation WC. He's from London, not first generation, more likely WC.

My son goes there - studying law - he is in his final year. He loves it. He said there are a lot of very rich students there whereas he comes from a housing association home and a single parent. Not sure he has made friends for life but definitely doesn’t regret his choice.

Try googling for demographic of students, or ask the Uni.
Articles like this suggest it's still above average privately educated.
thetab.com/uk/durham/2018/02/28/these-are-officially-the-most-private-school-durham-colleges-40390

And yes, as PP said, there have been concerns about sexist misogynist culture
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/23/durham-university-withdraws-freshers-place-over-abhorrent-online-posts

I think it's also sporty, not football posher sports like rugby and rowing. I don't know how easy it is to avoid the misogynistic entitled posh sporty boarding school type men, I don't think it's that big nightlife wise. But they are hopefully in the minority and there will surely be lovely sporty posh boarding school types too.

I was at Durham 1990 - 1993 - there was definitely a significant public school contingent but it was already starting to become more diverse. I was in a hill college - Trevs - where it was definitely less ‘rah’, but my brother was in Hatfield and had a great time, despite being a state school lad from Leeds.

One thing your son should consider - outside of the issues of social class - is whether he wants to go to a university with a college structure. I think it can be quite a different experience to being at a city based Uni, or on a campus.

@CorianderBee

Isn't there an issue with lad/rape culture there? Or is that somewhere else and I'm getting mixed up?

You're probably thinking of Warwick. It's pretty widespread though unfortunately, but obviously being taken more seriously these days.

Your DH shouldn't even be considering trying to 'talk him out' of applying ANYWHERE.

Hello. I think there probably is an element of that at Durham, but I don't think it matters if your DS likes the look of it. DC will find friends at any university, and there will always be others that they don't like.

I definitely don't think either of you should be talking your DS out of applying to what is objectively a very good Uni. Either way, I hope he gets to a place he loves.

"rah" is from the noise that the posh students make in groups.
Think Boris and his pals at uni.

I went to Bristol (some time ago) it was similar there, but the posh students didn't tend to study science, so we had a better mix of backgrounds.

Durham is quite diverse in terms of student intake and background. It’s a nice place to go, and the departments and faculty I know there are great - very supportive of students who want to learn. Lots of good college options too. Equally, university can be key for networking. The presence of the rah crowd may offer your DS some advantages.

Ultimately, no parent should be talking a student in or out of any university. It’s undue pressure on a choice the student has to live with, not the parent.

One thing your son should consider - outside of the issues of social class - is whether he wants to go to a university with a college structure. I think it can be quite a different experience to being at a city based Uni, or on a campus.

That is actually the main consideration I'd say - the structure is so different to anywhere else. He should think about that.