Is this creepy or am I over reacting?

[HallionRapscallion]

DH and I were watching notes on a scandal a few nights ago. We were chatting about age gap relationships and I had mentioned how I could never see an 18 year old as anything but a child and I thought it's weird when older men/women are into 18/19 year olds (for context I'm 35 and DH is 40). He disagreed and said 18 year olds are adults and that most men in their 30s/40s (if single and had the opportunity) would definitely sleep with an 18 year old. To say I was not amused was putting it lightly. Still feel a bit weirded out by it all but don't know whether I'm justified or a boring old prude. He thinks I'm being very naive and that may be true but I genuinely do find it so distasteful.

@OwlBeThere

I’m sorry, I think the fact you lived on your own and were forced into caring responsibilities is not an argument that you were actually an adult. It’s an argument that you were and exploited and neglected child. And I find it dubious in the extreme that in a conversation about older men and teenage girls you say that ages of consent are ‘arbitrary’ . Maybe if two 14 year olds are sleeping together.

I wouldn't personally sleep with anyone young enough to be my child but I can see why people would. They are adults, with fully developed bodies, not children so not ick in that way

Whether any 18/19 year olds would want to sleep with people more than twice their age with no ulterior motive is another matter! I doubt they would, I wouldn't have done at that age

It is not just men. I have 20 something sons and pre COVID they would go clubbing into Brighton. Plenty of older women prowling the clubs for a young man for the night. Some of them would get quite handsy and act like they were doing them a favour and they should be grateful for the attention.

Agree it's weird. I got one not far off that who's most definitely a child. Especially to a 30 or 40 year old. Im in my 30s myself. Nasty.

When I was in my very early 20s I had a relationship with a man in his 5ps. There is absolutely no way he as taking advantage of me.

'having something in common' is only relevant for relatioships, men in their 30s/40s who say they would sleep with 18yr old are NOT after relationships with them (bar some exceptions mentioned by women in age gap r-ships). They simply say they'd sleep with them.

It's sex, physical attraction! Physically 18yr old are developed adults and look great, and are also less jaded.

Some women also don't need a 'connection' apart from finding a man attractive visually /physically (and not a nasty person) just for a fling - as pp said, middle-aged women go to nightclubs / are known to have fling with much younger hotel staff on holidays abroad. There is also a toyboy website.

So let's not all go 'men are horrid', it's about individual sexuality.
Yes many (most?) women prefer to have a relationship rather than just a passionate fling, but not all by far, and posters on MN wouldn't automatically hear this from such women, because they know they'll be judged.

[quote MustardMitt]@OwlBeThere

I’m sorry, I think the fact you lived on your own and were forced into caring responsibilities is not an argument that you were actually an adult. It’s an argument that you were and exploited and neglected child. And I find it dubious in the extreme that in a conversation about older men and teenage girls you say that ages of consent are ‘arbitrary’ . Maybe if two 14 year olds are sleeping together.[/quote]
So what are you suggesting? raising the age of consent to over 18?

What age do you think would be ok? 25?

You are talking about an adult who can be a mother, joint the army, sign a contract, make serious medical decisions. Sure, she will have more experience and maybe be more mature at 25. Also at 30, 40, 50, and beyond.

I'm with you, OP. An 18 year old is still a child in my eyes. And a much older man would be an old pervert.
YANBU.

What do you think sex is FOR?
It is blindingly obvious why mature men would be happy to fuck 18-year-old women. Also obvious why mature women do not, on the whole, want to fuck callow youths.
Best chance of producing and successfully rearing young. Not a calculation that goes on at the conscious level, so much, but it drives sexual selection and response at a fundamental level, and no amount of squeaking about legal adults being 'children, really' or casting men in their 30s as creepy, hebephilic perves will make a jot of difference to the dynamic.

It might be legal but I find the idea of sleeping with an 18 year old gross... All the things that make sleeping with an under 18 weird (are legally a child, massive difference in life experience, power imbalance) don't change the day of their birthday.

I don't really care about big age gaps once both parties are in their mid twenties upwards, but any younger and I find it creepy.

What do you think sex is FOR?
It is blindingly obvious why mature men would be happy to fuck 18-year-old women. Also obvious why mature women do not, on the whole, want to fuck callow youths.
Best chance of producing and successfully rearing young. Not a calculation that goes on at the conscious level, so much, but it drives sexual selection and response at a fundamental level, and no amount of squeaking about legal adults being 'children, really' or casting men in their 30s as creepy, hebephilic perves will make a jot of difference to the dynamic

Yes! Eloquently put. Most posters on here dont understand this. Men are not conscious of this, that's how they've been wired. It's not about control either.

Im 32, 18yo is a baby to me.

But if that’s what sex is for then shouldn’t it work both ways? Shouldn’t women who are of child bearing age want a man who is at the peak of his sexual health(if that’s the correct term?) Not an older man who can struggle to maintain an erection due to his age?

Genuine question - I’m not sure of the answer but to me, women do not seem to act in the same manner as a lot of men. I know of no woman who actively pursues 18 year olds!

More surprised how many want to infantilise young adult women here. An 18 year old woman is a woman, able to do whatever and whoever she likes. If you think the age of adulthood should be 21 or “mid twenties” then think how you’d have felt at that age. But maybe you could start a petition or campaign to keep 20 year olds as “children”

@nokidshere

He's right, they are adults and it's their own business who they sleep with. As long as it's mutual and no one is being forced or coerced of course.

I think my sister who is 55 and her husband who is 70 would be pretty upset if someone described their 39yr marriage as 'distasteful'.

So when your sister married a 31year old man when she was 16, no one batted an eyelid?? Really? Your parents gave permission - as they would have had to - to let her get married? And we are talking early 1980s

No words

@Florelei

But if that’s what sex is for then shouldn’t it work both ways? Shouldn’t women who are of child bearing age want a man who is at the peak of his sexual health(if that’s the correct term?) Not an older man who can struggle to maintain an erection due to his age?

Genuine question - I’m not sure of the answer but to me, women do not seem to act in the same manner as a lot of men. I know of no woman who actively pursues 18 year olds!

Yeah it should go both ways surely..but it doesn't seem to

There probably is some biological reason for some of it mean, the men and not women thing could be explained away by men pretty much always being fertile (erecition issues aside) but like many things, I think a lot of it is driven by media and such. Its 'normal' to see a 70 year old guy with a 18 year old on his arm, these are the men men 'want' to be. Society doesn't tend to look down too much on older men with younger women, and 'mens mags/sites', regardless of age targetted at tend to feature very young women. Ontop f this, anecdotally as I am not aware of studies done on this, me I know seems to be more focussed on actual appearance than women, and its drummed into them (and women really) that 'good apperance' means looking as young and thin as possible, 'girly', showing skin and so on. Speaking compeltely generally (obviously not all women, etc etc), a 50 year old woman is unlikely to be going out in a skintight catsuit like an 18 year old might, and given it seems men are more focussed on what they can see, makes sense they would go for the 'sexy' look instead. I know I did read that erotica works better for women as men get turned on by what they see, where with women emagination is more important? Not sre if thats true or I misremember it though.

@Florelei

But if that’s what sex is for then shouldn’t it work both ways? Shouldn’t women who are of child bearing age want a man who is at the peak of his sexual health(if that’s the correct term?) Not an older man who can struggle to maintain an erection due to his age?

Genuine question - I’m not sure of the answer but to me, women do not seem to act in the same manner as a lot of men. I know of no woman who actively pursues 18 year olds!

Until recently a woman would have needed a provider while she cared for babies and young children. A man over 25 with a trade would be a better prospect than an 18 year old apprentice or labourer.

Slight derail but I was looking up the legal age of consent in other countries and was gobsmacked to see it is 13 in Japan It is 15 in DP's country of birth (we were disagreeing about this which prompted me to look it up and compare to other countries) and he said most young people have sex around 14/15. They have an extremely low rate of teenage pregnancy though.

Back to the subject of the thread, I don't think there is anything particularly terrible about a 30 something man sleeping with an 18 year although it does seem a bit predatory. An 18 year old is an adult. The issue is when the younger participant is still a child. When I see photos of the French president and his wife I wonder what his parents thought about their 15 year old son being being pursued by his 40 year old teacher. Quite disturbing on many levels.

It was Macron who pursued his wife for a very long time (not when he was 15, he met and liked her at 15 but wasn't immediately pursuing) - she said it was a very long time, years, till she considered it. He was very, very persistent.

I read an entirely different version of events in an interview they both gave where they both spoke about falling for each other when they worked on a school play together.

This was from the bona fide interview with Brigitte - she may have loved him as a person/pupil but she did not cosider a relationship. He did fall in love probably at 15 but didn't pursue as such immediately (though started I think afetr a year or so). She only saw it as a reaistic rlationship after years of him being persistent!

It's the case of true soulmates though, nothing to do with this thread where we are talking about purely sexual attraction.

I disagree creepy men would, decent men wouldn't think of having sex with a teenager cool or exciting

I think many decent men we probably wouldn’t want to know what they fantasise about as we would feel disappointed/hurt/a little disgusted

But that’s just fine as why do we need to know

So when your sister married a 31year old man when she was 16, no one batted an eyelid?? Really? Your parents gave permission - as they would have had to - to let her get married? And we are talking early 1980s

No point quoting half my post just to get a reaction. It clearly said that my mum called the police who went to their (sister/boyfriends) house. They ascertained that at 16 she was allowed to leave home and live where she liked. They spoke with them at length and decided my sister was in no danger and she wanted to be there and that she had not been forced or coerced. They could not make her return home.

They got married 2/3 yrs later. My mum and sister haven't spoken since.

My youngest sister was pregnant at 15 and given a council house with her 19yr old boyfriend and yes, it was 1982.

I didn't say no one battered an eyelid about these events. Just that they happened. my sister is still very much happily married with 3 children and 6 grandchildren and has never viewed their relationship as 'distasteful'.