Daughter has broken lockdown rules and meant to come to my house for Christmas.

[concernedmother52]

My daughter is a 28 year old single mum, she's 3rd year uni which is all online and is thoroughly fed up with lockdown (aren't we all!?)

We live in Scotland, tier 3 currently, tier 4 after Christmas. The plan for Christmas Day was that my daughter and granddaughter would join us for the day.

However, she has just openly admitted to me that her friend who lives in London who travelled from there to spend Christmas Day with his folks has been staying at her house the past two nights.

I am livid because London is very bad with the virus at the moment and all the transport her friend has been on!

She claims she is no longer letting the government control how she lives her life and that during the first lockdown her mental health took a dip (which I am aware of). She is struggling with online learning and not having much social interaction. She claims that it is her own risk whether she catches the virus.

I said I would need to have a word with my husband before deciding if she can come on Christmas Day, she hung up on me.

I'm so mad because it means missing out on our granddaughter as well and she will have nothing in the house organised for a Christmas Day meal and it makes me sad thinking of her and her daughter in the house just having a normal lunch/dinner.

AIBU if I let her come to our house?

@thewinehasgonetomyhead

She's seen one person. One. No need for the mass hysteria.

I hope all goes well both in terms of germs and family relations!

I wouldn't have taken that option though, this demonstrates how risky the Christmas covid bubbles are - people are so very varied in their risk taking levels.

@ApolloandDaphne

My DD arrived home from London at the weekend. We are not treating her like a leper and my 80yo DM is still coming on Christmas Day. We know the risks and will mitigate them as best we can. I would still allow your DD to come for Christmas Day. I think the risks are very small.

This is what basically everyone who goes on to catch covid thinks beforehand, sadly.

But those people catching it are not randomly drawn from a lottery - they are much much more likely to be the people who socialise indoors.

A Christmas meal inside increases that family's risk a very large amount.

100% agree with Loretta - would you really stop your grandaughter from coming for a mistake you clearly unhappy single mother daughter made. Surely they can come for the day and you distance and ventilate the rooms.

I am disappointed so many people are not seeing how serious this is. This exactly why we are not getting this virus under control as so many people are not following the rules!

We said from the start that in laws were not coming for Christmas dinner. Partly as we have two school age children and I work in a school so are more risky but also, mil just can't understand or follow the rules! She was just telling us yesterday how the delivery driver from Morrison's delivering their Christmas dinner box was dressed as santa... so she invited him in to see her husband to cheer him up and invited his helpers in to see their decorations etc. 3 strangers who have had contact with loads of different people she welcomed into her home! Now I know the risk is minimal, they were in the house for just a few minutes I'm sure and I hope were wearing a mask but this is just one of many examples of mil ignoring risk and rules (tier 3 here so we are not allowed in anyones house). The few times we have popped over to drop things off she tries to get us to come into the house - even telling DH to come round the garden then he can come in the back door!

So OP, if it were me I would be saying no dd, you can't come into my home. You assessed the risk for yourself but you don't get to do that for me.

YABU. The world is totally crazy and to treat family like this at Christmas over something so insignificant is so sad. There will be a reckoning one day over covid related mass hysteria

@inquietant

I hope all goes well both in terms of germs and family relations!

I wouldn't have taken that option though, this demonstrates how risky the Christmas covid bubbles are - people are so very varied in their risk taking levels.

Although, I actually do agree with the OP's choice, i think you are bang on re bubbles!

The problem is, the variation in how comfortable the other party is with risk and their understanding/interpretation of the rules. We haven't bubbled with a relative, but we considered it as they were living alone. But they live on the other side of the country and their interpretation of the rules is wrong completely different to mine. Fine for that person to take the risk for themselves, but if they are part of our bubble and therefore like an extra member of our household, then they are also taking that risk with my health, my DH's health and my dcs' health and ability to attend school / childcare (when they're open). Anyway, it turns out this person doesn't even live alone anymore, so we can't, but even if we could, we wouldn't.

But anyway, I think you'd really need to adore the person you bubble with or trust them completely to stick to the same rules you are. I didn't realise how big a commitment it was till I read the new guidelines.

@christmasathomeagain

I am disappointed so many people are not seeing how serious this is. This exactly why we are not getting this virus under control as so many people are not following the rules!

We said from the start that in laws were not coming for Christmas dinner. Partly as we have two school age children and I work in a school so are more risky but also, mil just can't understand or follow the rules! She was just telling us yesterday how the delivery driver from Morrison's delivering their Christmas dinner box was dressed as santa... so she invited him in to see her husband to cheer him up and invited his helpers in to see their decorations etc. 3 strangers who have had contact with loads of different people she welcomed into her home! Now I know the risk is minimal, they were in the house for just a few minutes I'm sure and I hope were wearing a mask but this is just one of many examples of mil ignoring risk and rules (tier 3 here so we are not allowed in anyones house). The few times we have popped over to drop things off she tries to get us to come into the house - even telling DH to come round the garden then he can come in the back door!

So OP, if it were me I would be saying no dd, you can't come into my home. You assessed the risk for yourself but you don't get to do that for me.

This is the issue that I think people (including you) are massively overreacting at situations such as this. My step dad works in London he's been there after tier 4 because work reasons are part of the exemption should I now not see him tomorrow because of this?

The issue lies with people who really don't care and mix with 10+ people in their homes, then they go to another friends and mix with another 10+ people etc etc. Let's not even mention the state of supermarkets where we all take risks daily.

She has mixed with 1 person is showing no symptoms and is her daughter fgs! I for one would fall out with my mum over something like this and think it's utterly ridiculous

When people break the rules and see others, it allows the virus to transmit at a faster rate if they are carrying it.

There is a great deal of selfish behaviour about:

1. Your daughter's selfish friend has illegally travelled all the way to Scotland from tier 4 London just because he wants to see his parents.

He has then selfishlessly stayed at the home of your daughter, putting her household at risk.

1. Your daughter is selfish in allowing this, knowing she would be visiting you and her dad and potentially risking your health.

1. You and your husband are selfish in allowing her to visit just because you really want to see your grandchild and daughter. (Your daughter has also been very manipulative because she knows how much you want to see the bairn).

We need to break the chains for the virus to be transmitted and you are not helping one bit. We all have a moral responsibility to the rest of the population to do everything we can to break the chains of transmission.

She has mixed with 1 person is showing no symptoms and is her daughter fgs!
Are you stupid? Just because you don't have symptoms doesn't mean you don't have the virus. We know infected people can be symptomatic.

That 1 person may have the virus and be asymptomatic.

The daughter and/or granddaughter may also have the virus and be asymptomatic.

She then meets up with her parents on Christmas day and could transmit it to one or both of them.

They could end up asymptomatic, have mild symptoms, severe symptoms, hospitalised or even dead from it.

I've been outraged by the government making it illegal to see loved ones (and saddened by the general public's support of it!) But, I don't think it is fair of her to expect you to take risks unwillingly. YANBU

The Gov has whipped people up into a frenzy. Lots of hysterics going on. The risks are not huge. Maybe london friend had it months ago already. Maybe he doesn't have it

It's all maybe

Just let her come. You'll miss out on precious time with your granddaughter

The level of risk your daughter's friend has taken passes on to you if she comes to visit. Would you be comfortable using public transport from London? No you wouldn't.

I'm in London and I'm not using any form of public transport or mixing with anyone. The risk of transmission is too high. That's why we are tier 4.

Don't bring a tier 4 risk into your home. Your daughter is being an idiot.

To those saying just get her to take a test, is doesn’t show up immediately and you can develop it over the course of approx 10 days after being in contact with a positive person which is why people have to self isolate for that length of time !

So unless she last saw this friend 10 days ago then the test doesn’t prove she doesn’t have it.

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread of comments so sorry if someone's already said this, but her getting a test, saying she's negative and allowing her to come, isn't the answer. She could get a negative result coz she's not showing symptoms yet. Doesnt mean she doesn't have it and it's not working on her.. She could test negative, come, pass it onto you guys.. Then get symptoms. Then you gets get it symptoms. After the incubation period.
Don't let her come.

I'm glad you have come to a decision OP- but honesty I question why anyone who professes to love their child, would expose them to such criticism and spite on a popular social media platform.

Personally I couldn't bear to read strangers being so harsh about my child especially acknowledging that she has struggled with her own well-being. Maybe next time instead of asking a bunch of total strangers (including those who TYPE IN CAPS THAT SHE IS A SELFISH GRANNY KILLER and those who open with WTF..) you just engage with her directly.

Genuinely hope you have a lovely day

Re. Testing. I had a test last Saturday and I'm still waiting for the results.....I wouldn't rely on the testing system at the moment!!

I think she is in the wrong and she shouldn't want to come to you as she could be putting you both at risk. I don't think YABU at all tbh.

I am with your daughter.
I don't want politicians to control my life.
Asymptomatic transmissions have never been proven.
London is not as bad as media tells us.
I am in London and don't know anyone who is ill with the virus.

It's weird to me that some people think it's unimaginable and cruel for someone to spend Christmas day alone but a minor mistake to risk your parents health and lives. The rules aren't just arbitrary it's not like you parked somewhere you weren't meant to. There is a very real risk to people's lives and it's not just life or death, people are struggling with serious symptoms months later. It's absolutely reasonable to not want to be exposed to that level of risk.

@Lunar567

I am with your daughter. I don't want politicians to control my life. Asymptomatic transmissions have never been proven. London is not as bad as media tells us. I am in London and don't know anyone who is ill with the virus.

This is just plain daft. Not only is it ignorant it's irrational. It's not politicians controlling anyone's life. If her daughter came round for Christmas no one is going to report it and no politician would stop them. It would increase the risk of OP dying which is why she doesn't want to do it. Obviously an idiot on mumsnet with no statistical, medical or any other expertise isn't going to change anyone's mind about that.

While I think I would host the dd in these circumstances, as the op is, I do think people who have led charmed / sheltered lives and lack resilience are losing the fucking plot over the idea of not having their usual Christmas. Not people who have MH issues or who would be totally alone and depressed, or people for whom this might be the last Christmas with a beloved relative who is terminally ill. But people, like some I know IRL who have lost their absolute shit over not getting the "I put my feet up and my mum and dad spoil me rotten" Christmas they always get. Maybe I'm bitter due to losing my Mum who died prematurely and suddenly. I do just think, if this is the absolute worst Christmas you can imagine, you haven't got much of an imagination. It did annoy me when my "friend" sobbed and wailed over her sister and her DH and children not being able to join her and their mum for a big knees up. Not one mention of my Mum. Didn't occur to her that her foot stamping might be actually a bit insensitive in the circumstances. I've gone right off her actually.

Oh sorry Christmas Eve was when my mum died. That is probably relevant to my mini rant^^!

@RedHelenB I had covid the beginning of November and I’ve been left on heart medication with no idea of the residual damage. There are a lot of people who’ve been left damaged or with long covid who are not part of any reported groups. Also 70 000 people have died and not all of these people are vulnerable.

The ops daughter has been massively unreasonable and maybe should visit an adult itu!! Therefore the op is not being unreasonable in considering not allowing her daughter to visit tomorrow.

@Lunar567

So where do you practice medicine and I assume you specialise in epidemiology or virology!!