To have called DB out on not proposing?

[Iamthehedgehogqueen]

NC as very outing circumstances.

DB is early 20’s with a GF of about 2 years. They have had a couple of big blow ups (covid played a big part) but otherwise very happy. They live together and own a pet.

GF is from a different culture, higher empathise on marriage and commitment. When GF moved in a fancy engagement ring was bought (DB asked GF to pick it out). DB excitedly shared this news with family. She didn’t push him, it was his choice.

This was months ago. He’s not popping the question any time soon. He states ‘not right timing’, he wants to visit her parents for ‘permission’ (they live a long way away and he doesn’t drive). It’s just obvious he’s not gonna do it any time soon. (Has form for dawdling and talking stuff to death).

GF is frustrated and gets upset.

Today DB brought up wedding venues on the phone and said he would to bring the ring to Christmas dinner to show DH and I.

I snapped a bit and sent him a polite but firm message after to say ‘I think you either need to put the ring on her finger or put it away for a while. You’re enjoying going through the motions of being engaged without actually being and I can understand why it’s causing GF distress. Either propose or stop dangling it in front of her.’

DH agrees with me but Im not often this blunt with DB and he can be pretty sensitive. I worry he’ll take offence.
Honestly though I do get a bit fed up of talking about something that’s hypothetical so much!

I’m also good friends with his GF and like her a lot so feel sorry for her.

He's tricked her into moving in with him, when culturally she needed some evidence of commitment.

He's too young and immature. Sadly she might persevere in the relationship rather than have the shame of being 'used'.

He's being massively disrespectful and disempowering to HER by waving it around - he hasn't asked the question, and it IS a question.

By parading around with it, he's kind of trumpeting the fact that of COURSE she agrees and is such a dead-cert that he doesn't even really have to ask.
She's being displayed as the default safety option.

@LawnFever

I don’t understand how you can, as a couple discuss marriage, pick out and buy a ring together and then expect a separate ‘proposal’ weeks/months/years later

At the point you’ve agreed to get married you’re engaged, it’s done with, just get on with it! Why didn’t she just start wearing the ring when they bought it?

Anything else is just silly imo, it’s not really a proposal anymore because the decision’s already been made

It's because for some people it's all about the show for everyone else's benefit. Picking a time to get engaged ffs 🙄. Like anyone other than them really cares

This sort of thing really gets on my nerves tho. People so self absorbed that they have to announce to others that they plan to get involved to make it some massive event. Literally missing the entire point that engagement to marry is only about the 2 people involved in it.

He is being a jerk. He could propose and say he wanted s couple of years engagement if he did not feel ready for marriage yet. With Covid I don't blame him for wanting to wait to get married but he could get engaged now. Maybe he wants to ask her at Xmas or New Year's Eve.

None of your business and I wouldn't be pushing a lad in his early 20s to marry anyone. FFS.

@CheshireDing

You were right to call him out on it, poor girl to be sat there with a ring being passed around but not having been proposed to. Home silly would she have felt, good for you for sticking up for her.

Maybe he will ask and she will say no as she is fed up of it too.

It's for the GF to call him out, not the OP.

He sounds way too immature for marriage; why force it on him? Don't meddle in their personal relationship.

@katy1213

What a strange way to behave. Surely once the ring has been bought, shown off in public, tacitly accepted - that's it, you're engaged anyway. He's ruined any formal proposal. Sounds like she could do better!

Also, idiotic as the whole idea of a proposal is (vs a mature discussion and mutual input) if she wants to be married why doesn't SHE propose?

These juvenile games don't bode well.

Your db is a twat and sounds like he's trying to flaunt how much he's spent on the ring I've never heard of anyone behaving like this.

@Chocolate1984

My husband bought my engagement ring 5/6 months before he proposed. We discussed marriage, we picked the ring together. In that time he was showing it to his parents and his sister tried it on before I had. I told people at work he bought a ring but after a couple of months I was embarrassed when people would comment “you still not got the ring yet?”. It took the enjoyment out of everything. When I got engaged it wasn’t even exciting and people wouldn’t comment about the length of tome he took. Your brother is being a dick. It’s a crappy thing to do.

Why didn't you propose to him instead of waiting around?

So he buys an engagement ring..... says he'll propose when the times right... then proceeds to whip the ring out to family and friends showing them this token of love.. but still hasn't yet asked her to marry him... 🤔

Your Brother is enjoying the praise he gets by showing how much he spent on such a beautiful ring.. when he brings it out of his pocket to show family and friends.. when the in reality family and friends SHOULD see the ring when it is firmly on her finger... by keeping it safely in his possession I think he sees the ring as His.. not Hers.. I don't believe he has any intention of asking her to marry him.. 😏

He's a Dick 😊

Is always so controlling?

The only time it should be 'shown off' is when it's on her finger.

This. Don't tell him to get engaged but do tell him you'll look at the ring when it's on a finger. This weird halfway thing is uncomfortable.

Quite relieved to see the vast majority agree with me. I was rather worried I’d overstepped but felt I had to as he was involving me/DH to a level we felt uncomfortable (asking to bring it to Christmas dinner). My DB has form for not really thinking about things the way others do. So I find it plausible he genuinely doesn’t think he’s doing anything wrong. I worry that GF is often painted as ‘unreasonable’ when she gets upset with him about this so hearing ‘your actually out of order here’ from another family member might put it into perspective for him or at least make it much harder for him to take the stance that she is wrong.

To answer PP

• He is 100% not having his cake and eating it anyway!

-He frequently brings it up in conversations and will talk about dates/venues/wedding plans quite happily. -He maybe would have proposed by now if not for covid. He certainly insinuates that but I know him very well and I seriously doubt it personally.

• I’m not convinced he is 100% sure she’s ‘the one’ which sucks as honestly (and I adore my DB but I’m gonna be totally honest) he is doing very well for himself. I couldn’t last in a relationship with someone like him. He’s not exactly ‘self sufficient’ and was pretty dependant on our DM to look after him before meeting GF. She adores him and does an awful lot for him. His quality of life would be vastly worse without her and I don’t think he appreciates that.

-Due to their age they fully intend to be ‘engaged’ for several years so there isn’t even that much pressure! They can get engaged and then go their own ways if it doesn’t work out in a year or twos time!

• She told me ages ago that she catches him looking at other girls in the supermarket sometimes and I was just like ‘FFS’. He spent years depressed as he wanted exactly the relationship he now has and was lonely. Now it’s like he doesn’t see what he has. I did ask him at the time If things were ok and he pretty much admitted it. Said he felt bad...etc but GF was always complaining (I kinda see why). I told him to either be ‘in it’ 100% of break up! He got very emotional and cried that he loved her and didn’t want to break up- he was inconsolable. So they seemed to fix it and move on.

I’m married with a child and another on the way. All this talk of engagement rings/ weddings/ proposals started when I got pregnant. I got the impression that DB had started to feel a bit left out after my wedding and subsequent pregnancy. Like he wanted some of the spotlight on him and his relationship ‘look what we are doing too’ kinda thing. I don’t see it as a competition I’m several years older than him so I figure now is my time and his will come when he’s ready. But I am starting to feel a bit eye rolling at constantly talking about something that isn’t even happening!!!

I might be totally wrong but I feel really sorry for his GF.

Always struck by the IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS people. Ahem, this is a close family member we are talking about. Also, AIBU pretty much consists of stuff that is technically not anyone's business, yet here we all are talking about it.

I think they should have a talk about where they see their relationship heading. Early 20s seems very young for a guy to marry. The only men I know who married before 25 were divorced in a few years.

He seems to young to get married

Normally I’d say butt out, but he has somewhat made it your business by talking to you about it. Also hard to see someone that you ( hopefully ) care about being strung along. He’s either going to get engaged to her, in which case give her the ring, or not, in which case he needs to stop the talking about it and tell her it’s not happening. It’s nice that he wants to get her parents approval, but given distance etc, could he not do that over the phone?

I can see now why divorce rates are higher now.

No one seems to care that he’s not ready to actually ask the question, despite having brought a ring (because she liked it so why wouldn’t you buy it when pointed out, it may get discontinued or out of stock), called all sorts of names on a mumsnet forum, head bitten off and guilt-proposes instead to avoid another confrontation.

This will likely end in divorce if it doesn’t end sooner and I’m excited for your brother to have some freedom back. Sounds like the poor lads in the wrong relationship.

@PriceEmUp

I just don’t agree with that analogy, sorry.

I think you’ve misread the situation. No one pushed him to get engaged. When he told me and DM he was going to move in with her we were hesitant and cautious ‘have you thought this through?...her culture...etc....there will be some marriage expectations’ no he knew best and knew what he was doing!

Then he took her on a big ‘day out’ to get the ring. It was all very his idea and was made a big deal of. Again we were pleased but cautious ‘it’s a lot of money, don’t buy it if you’re not ready...etc’. No he knew what he was doing, he was set on it! Fine.

My issue is that he’s ran this engaging race to the final hurdle off his own steam, got a lot of attention, time and energy from all of us and is now just standing there refusing to jump the last hurdle but wanting all the attention/excitement/fun that comes with winning the race!

He’s definitely got GF’s hopes and expectations massively up and now seems to be dangling it in front of her and getting annoyed at her for being upset. In her shoes I’d have dumped him by now. Even DH commended ‘I wouldn’t have made it a month trying this shit with you’

I don't think it's your business and do you really want him to marry someone he's only been with two years in his early twenties? He's so much life to live before settling down. If anything you should be encouraging him not to.

PriceEmUp
Then he shouldn’t have asked his gf to move in or taken her ring shopping. Op is totally right to call him out considering he went into his current living arrangements with his eyes open.

I might be way off here but I'm going to throw this out there. Do you think he keeps bringing it up because he hopes you will discourage him? It sounds like he doesn't really want to go ahead.

I just think it's unusual to ask permission to bring the ring to Christmas dinner. Why ask permission unless you think there might be an issue? I wouldn't ask 'do you mind if I wear a blue jumper instead of a green one?' because I wouldn't expect anyone to have a problem with that.

I'm with you op. I feel for his gf.

@garlictwist

No I’d rather he didn’t but I feel strongly that he’s behaving poorly. I’m not sure he’s giving enough respect/consideration to the difference in cultures and I do think he’s mislead his GF into a situation which is now very difficult for her. All the way along he was warned, told to be careful, slow down...etc but I feel he’s now written a lot of cheques with his words and doesn’t want to cash them in. GF made the decision to leave her family and move into his home based on promises he made.

Whilst he can walk away pretty unscathed I’m not actually sure how true that is for her. I think her parents are pretty westernised but her community pretty traditional. I think returning home from having lived with a boy who didn’t marry her would have a much higher impact on her than him.

I think he should have thought about this at the start, we all warned him.

@SevenSnobsASniping

He wasn’t so much ‘asking permission’ as he was excited to show me!

It was a ‘oh I can bring the ring and show you all it’ tbh it was all very much exclusive of GF. Almost like he’d bought any other high price item like a car/watch and was eager to show us it.

I don’t know, I’m hoping I’m wrong.

I offered to help him propose of Christmas dad btw, plan something nice as he was complaining that covid has removed the options for anything ‘perfect’ or ‘romantic’.

He declined saying it was too soon...etc. So I’m certain he’s not planning to propose on Christmas Day.