To think cheating with contraception is more common than I used to believe

[Thewithesarehere]

I am now beginning to think it’s more common. Recent threads haven’t helped this suspicion either. I wonder why anyone would do it and in what state of mind. It’s a lifetime commitment as it should be and stopping contraception without telling your partner should really be criminal. How is it consensual sex after all? Looking to hear your thoughts and share your stories of the CF women/men you know who have tried this.

OP said they had come to the view that this is super common after reading threads on here, having not thought so previously
I have not used the words ‘super common’.

@WoodliceCollection

I think you have to have a really very skewed and odd thought process to look at e.g. rape convictions, child maintenance evasion, etc in the UK and think "ah yes the problem here is that we don't have enough punitive laws towards womens sexual and reproductive etiquette."

There is no connection between the first part and the second bit of your argument.

OP should a man have an equal say in whether a pregnancy is continued? Just out of interest. An equal say in law.
This is something I hadn’t thought of before. But I have just tried to imagine myself in this situation. What if a woman can’t have an abortion? What if they find out when it’s too late? I don’t know the statistics for this kind of situation so can’t say how big an issue this will be.
On the ther side, it’s a huge financial and emotional toll when you have a baby. Most parents can relate that everyone has those moments of ‘what the hell was I thinking?’. So I can imagine how awful it will be for me to find that I am having a baby without my consent and then having to pay for the baby and need to be in it’s life as an equal parent. I think this trauma will actually shut me down for a long time because I have severe PND with my DC who are my universe.
So yes o think it’s not just deception, it’s criminal. I agree it’s very hard to prove in a court of law and I don’t know what the penalty should be. But it’s definitely a hideous thing to do to any man and counts as non consensual sex.

My best friend had a triple contraception failure. She was on the pill but got antibiotics for tonsillitis. She knew this meant there was a chance of the pill failing so when on her last day of antibiotics they had sex they used a condom. The condom split. (Not that it makes a difference but they had been married for many years at this point and had 2 boys already) she then got the morning after pill and was still pregnant. Her and dh decided this baby was meant to be if he could get through that many hurdles.. he is 18 now. We spoke of it this summer she said he was the best failure ever.

Another friend admitted to me she had pushed a needle through her diaphragm several times. Her dd is late teens and this friend has rewritten history saying she was a lovely surprise. I think I recall it clearly as at the time dh and I were discussing if we were going g to have one more. He was on no. I was on yes his no whilst hard for me had to win the day for me. My friend felt differently

OP

My apologies for paraphrasing

Non consensual sex is rape

The penalty for rape in law is prison. (In theory, of course in real life men who rape almost always get away with it).

So logically.

Women should be sent to prison when pregnant if the man reports her for lying about contraception. His word against hers most likely. We know who's word is worth more.

If you don't think the penalty for rape should be prison, interested in hearing your argument.

Lol no idea. It's not something I think about I have a life

So when a man agrees to start a family and then runs off a few months later. Cuts contact and pays a pittance that should also fall under the deception?

Well obviously he goes to the police and says he was tricked. She goes to prison, he doesn't have to pay maintenance (not that most men do anyway) and all is right with the world.

@Sometimeswinning

So when a man agrees to start a family and then runs off a few months later. Cuts contact and pays a pittance that should also fall under the deception?

I think there should be laws that ensure severe penalties for this. A huge number of men at the top are like this so not gonna happen any time soon but should happen because it’s women who pay the price.

@NiceGerbil

Well obviously he goes to the police and says he was tricked. She goes to prison, he doesn't have to pay maintenance (not that most men do anyway) and all is right with the world.

I said very clearly that I have no idea how it can be proved. the legal consequences of something like this are too many. If the man goes to the court, he will be the one who needs to prove. How would he?

Non consensual sex is rape so the punishment would be prison.

The courts tend to take the man's word over the woman's when it comes to sex offences.

I can't believe you want it to be criminal for a man to leave his partner if she's pregnant or they have kids. That's completely bonkers.

@StrippedFridge

I am not defending men not using contraception btw. Far from it. As DH tells our sons, if you don't wear a condom that's a planned pregnancy son.

This. I will be bringing up my three sons the same way. The only person responsible for their fertility is themselves.

I can't believe you want it to be criminal for a man to leave his partner if she's pregnant or they have kids. That's completely bonkers.
Why? Because the woman bears the losses in this case?

You want it to be a criminal offence for any couple where the woman is pregnant, or they have kids, to split up.

You say for the man to leave but I can't imagine you don't mean both ways surely. Or do you.

Yes obviously it's bonkers.

@NiceGerbil

You want it to be a criminal offence for any couple where the woman is pregnant, or they have kids, to split up.

You say for the man to leave but I can't imagine you don't mean both ways surely. Or do you.

Yes obviously it's bonkers.

I mean this that when a man leaves a marriage and causes all sorts of financial and emotional loss for the woman, CMS hardly ever covers it, IF he decides to stick to it in the first place. In the same vein, a woman causes emotional and financial loss for a the man who did not know she has stopped contraception behind his back. I see both as severe offence and both should have severe consequences. A child’s life is not child’s play.

So if a woman wants a baby and is trumped because her partner/dh says no, then surely it is down to him to ensure he is safe? Why should a woman continue filling her body with pills, foreign objects? If I wanted a baby and my dh said no then he is quite welcome to have the snip, just as if I didnt want another baby I would ensure i had contraception. Simple.

@Sometimeswinning

So if a woman wants a baby and is trumped because her partner/dh says no, then surely it is down to him to ensure he is safe? Why should a woman continue filling her body with pills, foreign objects? If I wanted a baby and my dh said no then he is quite welcome to have the snip, just as if I didnt want another baby I would ensure i had contraception. Simple.

I agree that it’s his turn to take the steps for contraception

You confirm you want to criminalise men leaving relationships if the woman is pregnant or they have kids.

Yes that is utterly and completely bonkers.

How does your law work for gay men and lesbians?

If a gay couple with kids split up do they both go to prison or neither

@NiceGerbil

You confirm you want to criminalise men leaving relationships if the woman is pregnant or they have kids.

Yes that is utterly and completely bonkers.

Have you been on the Relationships board? Have you seen the trauma it causes? And the cost that woman pays? It’s incredibly one-sided and that is the thing that is bonkers here.

@NiceGerbil

How does your law work for gay men and lesbians?

If a gay couple with kids split up do they both go to prison or neither

First, I am not sending anyone to prison. I said penalties and consequences. As for gay couples, the basics are the same: who gave up their career? Who will bear the financial losses? The emotional upheaval? That is not imPossible to assess regardless of the couple’s sexuality, which by the ways didn’t need a laughing emoji in your post.

'I think there should be laws that ensure severe penalties for this. '

Severe penalties in law in the UK = prison.

Yep bonkers.

Trying to justify your stance that women who lie about contraception are guilty of non consensual sex ie rape and it should be subject to according legal process and penalties

By suggesting that men who leave women when they are pregnant or there are children in the family should be criminalised

Is a pretty odd argument

I think you'd be better off sticking to your comments about women who lie about contraception (apparently something you had no thoughts on at all before reading do many threads on here where women said they were going to/ had done this) and not trying to, what, balance it with some bonkers idea about criminalising couples separating.

My friend is getting the snip after his meeting wife got pregnant with the coil..

Not sure when the random word “meeting” appeared!