To think cheating with contraception is more common than I used to believe

[Thewithesarehere]

I am now beginning to think it’s more common. Recent threads haven’t helped this suspicion either. I wonder why anyone would do it and in what state of mind. It’s a lifetime commitment as it should be and stopping contraception without telling your partner should really be criminal. How is it consensual sex after all? Looking to hear your thoughts and share your stories of the CF women/men you know who have tried this.

@CakeRequired

But the man physically doesn't have to bear a child. It is radically different.

No they don't, but as I say if they are a decent person, they still have to take care of the child, pay for it etc. Children, as much as people love them, turn your world upside down. You're no longer able to be selfish and do what you want or spend your money how you want, especially if you are poor. Everything goes to the child. It's physically, emotionally and financially draining. So he does still lose in that situation because he didn't want one, he's essentially lost his previous life for the next 20+ years and he'll never get that back.

That really isn't true, @CakeRequired. You only have to read the Relationships forum on here, compare the number of fathers who just up and leave their children versus the number of mothers who do the same, and to be aware that an institution exists whose job is tracking down absconded fathers and forcing them to pay a (terribly small) percentage of their salary, to recognise that it's perfectly possible to be still considered an adequate father by society at large while having only intermittent visits or none with your children, and paying a tiny monthly sum because legally compelled.

Many men in no way lose 20 plus years of their life to childrearing because of an unintended pregnancy. Hence I think that women who have the cognitive ability to grasp this very rarely 'cheat' on contraception, because the consequences of an unintended pregnancy or a pregnancy not wanted by both partners for them are so much more life-altering.

Why the fuck cant men grasp that sex always carries a risk of pregnancy unless shes had a hysterectomy?
I dont think men who moan about being deceived are even upset by the deception as much as the inconvenience of a child when actually the inconvenience of a child was always there anyway. Men should encouraged to be more chaste and discerning with their sexual partners. But oh no, blame evil women deceiving poor trusting man.

@SirMoanalot

Why the fuck cant men grasp that sex always carries a risk of pregnancy unless shes had a hysterectomy? I dont think men who moan about being deceived are even upset by the deception as much as the inconvenience of a child when actually the inconvenience of a child was always there anyway. Men should encouraged to be more chaste and discerning with their sexual partners. But oh no, blame evil women deceiving poor trusting man.

Well, if she actually deceived a trusting partner, than she is evil and to blame. Same way like a man would be evil and to blame if he deceived his partner into trusting him that he had a snip. Evil.

@PigsInHeaven

I know, there are definitely men out there who don't bother, even with kids they planned. And yeah the amount they have to give by cms is bad, we've set very low standards for men.

The problem on this thread is that some still place the entirety of blame on the man, when how can he be blamed if he was deceived?

This isn't totally the same, but my partners ex told him she was pregnant and that it was his. She had been caught cheating on him by this point as well, so she wasn't believed and a dna test was done. The baby wasn't his. But she was completely fine lying to him about it. She now doesn't even have custody of her own child, her mum does, because she can't be bothered looking after the kid. If she hadn't been caught cheating, he could have been lumbered with a child that isn't biologically his while she buggers off partying all the time.

People need to just stop lying to each other and actually behave like the adults they are meant to be. But that will never happen.

Well, if she actually deceived a trusting partner, than she is evil and to blame
No contraception is 100%. Not even the snip. Pregnancy was always a risk. Even if she took the pill correctly. Men should take responsibility for their choices and actions. You really don't want a child? Fucking put it back in your pants then.

@SirMoanalot

Well, if she actually deceived a trusting partner, than she is evil and to blame No contraception is 100%. Not even the snip. Pregnancy was always a risk. Even if she took the pill correctly. Men should take responsibility for their choices and actions. You really don't want a child? Fucking put it back in your pants then.

There is a difference between contraception failure and planned lies about contraception use.

Journalists are so lazy these days.

This exactly. I think men have it much worse.

What because society judges them harshly? Really? You’re saying that’s worse than the women who get pregnant , the shock of an unexpected pregnancy, deciding on whether you want to abort a living fetus inside you and having to make life changing decisions if you keep it?
I don’t even agree men DO get treated harshly. Maybe as a concept or a in discussion about morality down the pub
In truth most people when faced with a man who has walked out on his kids (if people even get to find out) tend to not to judge as they don’t know all the facts and aren’t interested. If the CSA as a government organisation can’t get men to pay then the collective will of society isn’t really behind it is it.

I think society, as usual, heaps all the responsibility on women (and yes, I am aware only women can get pregnant).
The message to men should be very simple: if you don't want to be a father, either refrain from ejaculating anywhere near a women or have a vasectomy, one of the most efficient forms of contraception.

Once that is established, the rest can follow.

I can imagine reactions on a thread if a woman came here and said she feels hurt because even though she uses x contraception her DH refuses to have sex without extra protection or finish "anywhere near her" because he doesn't want kids.
That would be shower of LTBs like never before.

Men should encouraged to be more chaste and discerning with their sexual partners. But oh no, blame evil women deceiving poor trusting man
When read things like this, I wish my child was gay. Of course you should blame the recieving woman.

I can imagine a poster saying that she got married to an and then found out that he was £500k in debts and not the owner of the property he claimed to be.

We would then say to her 'well women should be encouraged not to marry or carry out a large investigation if intending to and demand access to all his bank account. But no, lets blame the poor man deceiving poor trusting women'.

Some posters are so sexist, it's hard to consider they can really believe what they write.

What because society judges them harshly? Really? You’re saying that’s worse than the women who get pregnant , the shock of an unexpected pregnancy, deciding on whether you want to abort a living fetus inside you and having to make life changing decisions if you keep it?
I don’t even agree men DO get treated harshly
Most women who want an abortion do so in complete anonymity. When she decides to carry on with the pregnancy, she is usually pitied for being let down by her asshole of partner who won't support her.

Men who are stuck paying for a child they never wanted, with the constant guilt that although they did nothing wrong, they know they are letting down a human being?

Of course men have much less control on the matter than women.

That would be shower of LTBs like never before
Without a doubt :)

I have a solution (lighthearted)
Men should guard their sexuality carefully. As young boys we should teach them to save themselves for marriage, until they find a woman they really care about. Because (according to some posters on this thread) most women are just itching to take advantage of men, men need to take responsibility for protecting themselves by being chaste, avoiding the advances of predatory women or getting drunk as then said predatory women could take advantage of them. Fathers have a responsibility to instill this in boys, and make sure they are safely locked up at night with a tight curfew. Girls dont need to worry about having their sperm stolen so can have more freedom. Also, if a man is known to have been promiscuous that will out decent women of as they could easily have children already (due to the sneakiness of women) so they will end up alone when they are old.
I mean if women are THAT predatory it makes sense right?

@CakeRequired

Happened to me in my late teens. Condom split - then, when I was given the MAP, for some reason I didn't take the dosage instructions in properly. You were given 4 pills, two to be taken ASAP, two to be taken 12 hours after that. For some reason, I immediately swallowed....one hmm. 12 hours later, I went to take the second dose, re read the instructions, and thought "Oh fuck. Still, I'm sure it'll be fine".....It wasn't.

That's not a double contraception failure. Its one contraception failure and one failure to read instructions properly. You really shouldn't be telling people that and I'm not surprised they don't believe you.

Anyway, anyone who deliberately stops taking contraception in any form to deliberately have a child when the other person is unaware or doesn't want them us a shit person. That includes men and women, men have been known to put holes in condoms. Women stop taking pills, injections or get implants/coils removed or don't take the MAP. I'd bet if a thread was made in here about a man who puts holes in condoms he'd be condemned. But it seems to be OK the other way around. No it's not. You're a shit person either way when you deliberately do that.

And if you can't take a pill reliably, I just listed the other options above. I got the implant because it's got a higher percentage than the others and I don't have to bother with taking a pill every day and wasting time going to the pharmacy. Yeah it's got side effects, unfortunately they normally all do except condoms, I just put up with it. Would rather have the side effects than a baby I don't want.

You accidentally forgot to c&p the final paragraph of her post where she says exactly that.

"(I do realise this was not technically a double contraceptive failure, more a contraceptive failure teamed with a basic comprehension failure )"

If either party doesn't wish to become a mum/dad that person should take responsibility for their contraception. It's easier for a guy to stick a condom on (let's don't forget all the fafff many of us have been through to find the contraception that's rights for us - spots, periods affected, weight gain, increased risk of stroke, anyone?) actually. All this "the poor menz", Jesus just wear a condom if you don't want a baby. Or, no sex at all. It's not essential to our existence or a human right. And will guarantee no unwanted parenthood.

If someone lies about taking it/wearing one clearly they're aren't a great person. Ultimately though, a pregnancy, planned or otherwise, will in nearly all cases have a much bigger impact on a woman, and for years to come, which is why I agree decisions regarding terminations or not, end with us to make, not men.

Would like to add that of course abstaining applies to women too as the only way to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

You could say my child was born into deception. I wasn't on contraception and he didn't put a condom on. I knew I was ovulating and never told him. It wasn't because I wanted another baby, I guess I wanted to try my chances.

Anyway, 6 years later and we have a happy family. He doesn't need to know.

@crackofdoom

*I had a double contraception failure. I tell people and they are like this hmm But sometimes I think babies have other ideas.

Tell us more. It’s interesting to hear this as this colleague of mine had a health issue that flared up, making the contraception effectively useless without her realising it.*

Happened to me in my late teens. Condom split - then, when I was given the MAP, for some reason I didn't take the dosage instructions in properly. You were given 4 pills, two to be taken ASAP, two to be taken 12 hours after that. For some reason, I immediately swallowed....one . 12 hours later, I went to take the second dose, re read the instructions, and thought "Oh fuck. Still, I'm sure it'll be fine".....It wasn't.

(I do realise this was not technically a double contraceptive failure, more a contraceptive failure teamed with a basic comprehension failure )

But @crackofdoom, why did you say a double contraceptive failure "happened to me in me late teens" in the first place? As you said in the very same post, the second part wasn't a contraceptive failure.

@MrDarcyismines

You could say my child was born into deception. I wasn't on contraception and he didn't put a condom on. I knew I was ovulating and never told him. It wasn't because I wanted another baby, I guess I wanted to try my chances.

Anyway, 6 years later and we have a happy family. He doesn't need to know.

It's not deceptive if both of you knew there is no contraception involved. Or if he didn't specifically ask about ovulation. If 2 people know they are having unprotected sex and are ok with it, it's fine and different to one person lying.

I don't know anyone at all IRL who would admit to deceiving their partner wrt contraception, at least not to me anyway. I would think badly of them for it, of course I would, not least because of the potential consequences for any child that might result from it. Adults who have PIV sex know that pregnancy may result, so whilst I think it is absolutely appalling behaviour for either to pretend that they are using contraception when they are not, at the end of the day they would be aware that no contraception is 100% foolproof and that pregnancy was always a possible outcome, so my rage and sympathy are limited. A child born as a result of such deception, though... they are entirely innocent and they are who I would feel the most for.

i think society, as usual, heaps all the responsibility on women (and yes, I am aware only women can get pregnant).
I started this thread to talk about women/men who deceive their partner into pregnancy by stopping the use of contraception without discussing it first.
I agree that lack contraception options for men is a contributing factor here but not in the way you mention it.
Men should use contraception at their end. It doesn’t mean their partner should get away with lying about hers at her end.

Would the women who have issues taking pill (and won't sort alternative) and keep forgetting because it's PITA have the same attitude towards a medicine for a medical condition? It's the same thing. You have to swallow a pill regularly.
Yes. I do forget occasionally.
What you are forgetting though is a couple of missed pills a month at an unfortunate time can make a huge difference sometimes. I think we really need more contraceptive options for men.

What you are forgetting though is a couple of missed pills a month at an unfortunate time can make a huge difference sometimes. I think we really need more contraceptive options for men.

So can couple of pills for a heart condition. If someone forgets "couple of pills a month" they really need some other contraception sorted. Why put something in yourself what can have side effects when you don't take it properly and so rendering it useless.

I agree. We need more options for men!

@SchrodingersImmigrant

What you are forgetting though is a couple of missed pills a month at an unfortunate time can make a huge difference sometimes. I think we really need more contraceptive options for men.

So can couple of pills for a heart condition. If someone forgets "couple of pills a month" they really need some other contraception sorted. Why put something in yourself what can have side effects when you don't take it properly and so rendering it useless.

I agree. We need more options for men!

Compliance with drug regimes for chronic conditions is a huge issue. Women are hardly unusual in not being totally on the ball all the time. It is typical human behaviour not a sign of these women being particularly flakey or something.

I know a woman who got pregnant “accidentally” by a man who she couldn’t get to commit to her. She thought stopping the pill and getting pregnant would stop him dating other women.

He is dating someone else and she has a 15 month old.

Both insanely selfish people.