To feel drained and slightly depressed by other mums

[Anonymous311264]

Please help me understand why I’m feeling like this and please be kind. I am aware I might be slightly depressed at the moment but I just need to get some insight:

I feel drained everytime I drop and pick up eldest child from school. The reason is the other mums. I’ve noticed days I don’t see or talk to other mums I have a lovely day but days like yesterday I feel upset and depressed. It’s not necessarily that they say anything unkind. It’s more to do with how I feel after talking to them. I’ve tried leaving at various different times but I always bump into someone as it’s a very small community school. I work part time so I get to drop my eldest off earlier, I cannot do that on days off as no availability. I don’t want to waste my days off feeling like this. I should be bonding with my baby not being upset about the other mums!

Why do I feel like this? I blame my depression BUT I feel fine on days I don’t see them. Also couple of times on my day off I’ve been late so avoided speaking to anyone and that day was great.I just feel there’s a correlation between speaking to them and having an awful day and opposite of that not seeing anyone and having a lovely day where I’m not overthinking.

I don’t want to look back on my life and think I wasted my life being upset and depressed.

@Mrsfrumble

Why do we treat "school mums" as such a distinct section of society? They are just women. Why do we give the this power?

^^ This. I regard other school parents like my work colleagues (when I worked). I could make small talk in the kitchen while waiting for the kettle to boil with pretty much anyone. Some of them I’d “click” with and want to spend time with outside of work. Others not so much. If I wasn’t in the mood for chatting I’d just make an excuse about being busy and scuttle back to my desk.

Perhaps it’s the school environment that takes people back to their own school days, but all this stuff about “queen bees”, competitive parents and bitchy cliques is projection.

I agree with you completely.

@speakout I was talking about my own personal experience, nowhere did I say that ALL mothers were "nasty gossipping harridens"!

It's one of the (many) reasons I removed my DS from that particular school, at the start everyone was chatty and friendly then gradually the bitching about X and Y started and groups of supposed adults formed which would then exclude the children of certain people from activities.

I drew the line when I overheard someone say that they didn't want DS at a party because he "attracted too much drama" - he is Autistic and was being tormented daily by another child to the point that the police had to be involved and DS was given an escort around the school. The parent of said child was part of that Mother's clique and people who normally spoke to me decided to blank me from then on in.

So yes, they were bloody bitchy and I won't be subjecting myself or my kids to that again. They are of no use or interest to me.

I do think there is something about the school environment that brings out the worst in some people. The environment certainly didn't suit me and I did find it a bit like being back at school. Conversely, parents I met in a different environment - i.e. work - were completely different

It can depend on the school/year group - I've experienced two schools had it in one - often competetive parents or subtle digs and in an area which was unfriendly to outsiders - and worse in one year group. DM picked up DN said infant school was fine - hated the junior school pick up she waited in car as long as possible.

Smile and nod and be brief/avoid or headphones - it might improve with time as people in playground change and as kids get older.

I'd also like to add that we don't expect invites about everything, that's something I got used to early with my DS. It's just one example and the one that finished it for me.

I would be friendly but try not to let it bother you if the mums are cliquey. I'm aware it can happen, as it can in any walk of life, but the school run is not forever.

I live in an area like Motherland. Very middle class. I've seen the cliques in the baby and toddler groups, I was lucky to meet friends who weren't like that (at the council run and church groups, all the ones at Baby Sensory were more like that). I was a bit worried the school would be cliquey so tried to see it as temporary and not forever, as they will be at secondary before you know it. Luckily school mums and dads are lovely, although there is a little boasting on the whatsapp group from one family about how much work the child was doing during self-isolation. It just made me laugh though.

What defines a “clique” from a “pre-existing group of friends” though? Not trying to be goady or dismiss other people’s experiences, just genuinely interested and the baby group example made me think. When DS was tiny, I happened to get on well with the women from my NCT group, so we arranged to go to some local baby groups together. Once there, we tended to stick together and talk among ourselves. Would that make us a clique? I now run a toddler group (or did pre-COVID) and see groups of mums or nannies who obviously already know each other arriving and hanging out together. Is that cliquey? Or just people who are already familiar wanting to spend time together?

[quote Anonymous311264]@icklekid I’m not very good at articulating or expressing me feelings but I’ll try!

I basically feel on edge and on high alert when I’m talking to most of them. I can’t put it in words but I feel my heart racing and I don’t like the way they look at me. But I go straight to my weekly shopping after drop off and I’m fine![/quote]
Sometimes your body reacts when your mind does not want to do something I wouldn't blame yourself or think of this as your depression sometimes we just don't want to talk to certain people because we get nothing from it and that's okay.

I would try and turn my attention away from the mums if they make you feel like that if you are waiting with your child to go into school play a little game between the two of you and when you are waiting for pick up say a quick hello and read a book I do this a lot and none bothers you when your doing something

Hope it helps x

A clique implies an unfriendly group who actively exclude others. I have met cliques and just groups of friends, the latter being friendly when approached

@upsidedownwavylegs

The misogynistic bile people are falling over themselves to spout on here as soon as someone mentions the phrase ‘school mums’ beggars belief.

This

@Pesimistic

I felt much the same when I had self esteem issues

Then this.

I have occasional moments (that are usually hormone fuelled) of low self esteem, and I worry my kid is being left out too.

But then I remember he doesn’t care, and that I have friends and I wait for a day or two and then I’m myself again.

I think whether the NCT friends at a baby group are being cliquey depends on the type of session. Baby 'class' I think is fine as there is an organiser who is likely to chat to anyone there on their own. More of a free for all church/village hall type group - it depends whether you are open to chatting to other mums who are there, especially if they're on their own. Otherwise although the intention might not be to exclude, the mum who has finally made it out of the house with their baby for the first time might end up not actually talking to anyone for the whole session. Actually for this reason I think baby groups work best when there is an organiser who can look out for mums (or dads/grandmas/childminders) who are looking lost and make sure they're included.

I don't have social anxiety but my god I hated seeing all those other school mums. They used to drain me of all energy. Like dementors! I feel your pain.

And aren’t we all supposed to be dropping and running now anyway??

I think it's because it's something that you didn't wholeheartedly choose, but can rarely get out of (twice a day, clockwork timings, lots of people involved too, very little variation, teachers have the potential to be a big deal to your DC's experiences).

I have experienced the feeling you describe but the strange thing was, it was when I went for a coffee with one of the other parents. I truly think they're really nice and I was very interested to talk to them, potentially to see if we had more in common. Still chat regularly and the children are friends, but I wouldn't say 'we' are friends or would remain so without the common ground of primary school. Could not understand why I physically felt that way,

I have a feeling it might be something to do with wanting to give your social and mental energy to other things now - your baby and your DC - yet having to use it daily where it's unlikely to be meaningful for you.

What defines a “clique” from a “pre-existing group of friends” though?

Indeed... or even just a natural group of friends?

In my DD's school quite a lot of the kids went to a local nursery so they and their kids socialised before starting primary. When my DD arrived we had recently moved from another area and she didn't know anyone in the class (and I didn't know any of the parents). So in the first few years of primary there were quite a few playdates that my DD wasn't invited to because she hadn't known the other kids as long.

Some groups of mums will form friendships with others. Some will already have known some of the mums from before school. You can't really expect people not to do this and you can't take offence when it happens. It's totally normal for people to gravitate towards people whom they know already or who they think they will have more in common with.

I didn't offence at the fact that my child didn't know other children, I just cracked on with it and now (year 5), the pre-existing friendship groups are irrelevant.

Some people seem to take great offence at the fact that school mums aren't falling over themselves to invite Uncle Tom Cobley and All to a big party outside the school gates all the time. Most people don't have the time or the bandwidth to do this and they focus their attention on those people they already know.

Its perfectly reasonable that this makes people feel anxious but its not fair to say this is all evidence of a "bitchy clique". It's just a massively unhelpful attitude which only feeds this anxiety.

upside I think you have misunderstood. The over friendly mother that used to wait literally for her target to pick up their children, and then work on them was not an innocent 'friendly' mother but someone that was networking to an inch of her life and collecting gossip to trade later, she was neither genuinely friendly nor interested in a proper friendship.

She was simply waiting for various chosen parents to further her personal ambitions or those of her children. I used to dread seeing her, because she would also gossip terribly to everyone with no regard for their feelings, and I had a cancer diagnosis at the time and couldn't deal with her.

In fact the whispering about me, the fake pity whilst scouting for the 'update' to share with others before anyone else could get there, the complete absence of filter or genuine feeling about the predicament we were in, especially during that period when I didn't want my young children to find out in the playground why I was spending so much time in hospital, it was one of the lowest points of my life.
The gossiping about my health and the major stress we were going through, was turned into entertainment, and that week's coffee subject - it was almost too much to bear on top of what was already very very hard. So forgive me if I was not excited to see her, but she really was toxic and self serving. I found out during that time what amazing friends I had, but I can't say she was one of them.

I really rather you didn't call me names, given you don't know me or my circumstances.

My greatest advice to you op is to make your friends outside the school environment, keep everything else at arms length, and then you won't ruin things for your child if/when it falls apart.

You are probably just really insecure. And fear to be judged. The prying eyes and stares you made up in your head. You feel only like this at school as in a supermarket you find yourself with nothing to compare yourself to and no reason to either. No judgement from strangers at supermarkets. No need to try to fit in. Or the need to be liked...
Social anxiety def should be looked into op.

Take care

I think this might be the way you feel when there is pressure on you to chat to people whom you don’t want to chat to. It can happen at work, too. It is absolutely draining to have to go through the motions.

They’re not people who matter in your life, OP. Nor everybody enjoys pointless chitchat. It’s normal!

Not everybody...

@Friendsoftheearth

upside I think you have misunderstood. The over friendly mother that used to wait literally for her target to pick up their children, and then work on them was not an innocent 'friendly' mother but someone that was networking to an inch of her life and collecting gossip to trade later, she was neither genuinely friendly nor interested in a proper friendship.

She was simply waiting for various chosen parents to further her personal ambitions or those of her children. I used to dread seeing her, because she would also gossip terribly to everyone with no regard for their feelings, and I had a cancer diagnosis at the time and couldn't deal with her.

In fact the whispering about me, the fake pity whilst scouting for the 'update' to share with others before anyone else could get there, the complete absence of filter or genuine feeling about the predicament we were in, especially during that period when I didn't want my young children to find out in the playground why I was spending so much time in hospital, it was one of the lowest points of my life.
The gossiping about my health and the major stress we were going through, was turned into entertainment, and that week's coffee subject - it was almost too much to bear on top of what was already very very hard. So forgive me if I was not excited to see her, but she really was toxic and self serving. I found out during that time what amazing friends I had, but I can't say she was one of them.

I really rather you didn't call me names, given you don't know me or my circumstances.

My greatest advice to you op is to make your friends outside the school environment, keep everything else at arms length, and then you won't ruin things for your child if/when it falls apart.

Literally none of that could be inferred from what you said originally. I didn’t misunderstand in the least.

You are probably just really insecure.

Rubbish. Those irritating mums are a pain, more like.

And upside you sound familiar, I wonder why

@Friendsoftheearth

upside I think you have misunderstood. The over friendly mother that used to wait literally for her target to pick up their children, and then work on them was not an innocent 'friendly' mother but someone that was networking to an inch of her life and collecting gossip to trade later, she was neither genuinely friendly nor interested in a proper friendship.

She was simply waiting for various chosen parents to further her personal ambitions or those of her children. I used to dread seeing her, because she would also gossip terribly to everyone with no regard for their feelings, and I had a cancer diagnosis at the time and couldn't deal with her.

In fact the whispering about me, the fake pity whilst scouting for the 'update' to share with others before anyone else could get there, the complete absence of filter or genuine feeling about the predicament we were in, especially during that period when I didn't want my young children to find out in the playground why I was spending so much time in hospital, it was one of the lowest points of my life.
The gossiping about my health and the major stress we were going through, was turned into entertainment, and that week's coffee subject - it was almost too much to bear on top of what was already very very hard. So forgive me if I was not excited to see her, but she really was toxic and self serving. I found out during that time what amazing friends I had, but I can't say she was one of them.

I really rather you didn't call me names, given you don't know me or my circumstances.

My greatest advice to you op is to make your friends outside the school environment, keep everything else at arms length, and then you won't ruin things for your child if/when it falls apart.

That sounds like a truly dreadful situation. I can just imagine the type of person you mean.

@Friendsoftheearth

And upside you sound familiar, I wonder why

I wonder why too. Genuinely, I have no idea why I would sound familiar to you.