To feel drained and slightly depressed by other mums

[Anonymous311264]

Please help me understand why I’m feeling like this and please be kind. I am aware I might be slightly depressed at the moment but I just need to get some insight:

I feel drained everytime I drop and pick up eldest child from school. The reason is the other mums. I’ve noticed days I don’t see or talk to other mums I have a lovely day but days like yesterday I feel upset and depressed. It’s not necessarily that they say anything unkind. It’s more to do with how I feel after talking to them. I’ve tried leaving at various different times but I always bump into someone as it’s a very small community school. I work part time so I get to drop my eldest off earlier, I cannot do that on days off as no availability. I don’t want to waste my days off feeling like this. I should be bonding with my baby not being upset about the other mums!

Why do I feel like this? I blame my depression BUT I feel fine on days I don’t see them. Also couple of times on my day off I’ve been late so avoided speaking to anyone and that day was great.I just feel there’s a correlation between speaking to them and having an awful day and opposite of that not seeing anyone and having a lovely day where I’m not overthinking.

I don’t want to look back on my life and think I wasted my life being upset and depressed.

There is a lot of pressure on mum's to do the right things all the time. Society has changed a great deal and not for the better. Too competitive and what you have rather than what your like as a person.
I found it hard to fit in.

I felt much the same when I had self esteem issues

Ferocious social networkers that will do anything to be part of the in group at school, it is not so much as a lose group of well meaning women, but a cabal of strategic mothers with a laser like focus on their kids and their friendships

Blimey. I can recommend a nice bog-standard state primary school in my down-at-heel suburb if you ever fancy a break from this intense drama.

Well I’m not working ATM and I still don’t have the time or inclination for cliques, judging or dramatic “blow ups”. I’m obviously either very lucky or very oblivious! Or just really boring; so boring I only attract fellow boring people

I can recommend a nice bog-standard state primary school in my down-at-heel suburb if you ever fancy a break

Sounds blissful!

Or just really boring; so boring I only attract fellow boring people

You have got it sussed mrs

The middle classness of mumsnet really shines through sometimes

OP. That sounds tough and yes, very much like social anxiety so go easy on yourself. There's nothing wrong with you, we're all so different and all enjoy/cope with different levels and types of social interaction.

I was reading a fascinating post on a PDA blog recently about this sort of thing and how once you realise and accept who you are, it's so much easier and the anxiety abates.

For example, some people don't mind being in say, a room of people, but prefer to be on the edge, not having to be necessarily involved in the chit chat and conversation but only if they're not made to feel awkward and anxious in doing so. If it wasn't seen as rude to be quiet and introverted, quiet introverts would be sooooo much happier!

On a personal note, the lack of the school run has become another one of the joys of home education now we've de-registered

I feel the same way, OP. I just find the whole thing overwhelming and anxiety-inducing. I get round it by avoiding drop-offs (DH does them) and doing late pick-ups - DCs go to after school club, so I miss the rush and pick the kids up slightly later, which they enjoy anyway.

Ferocious social networkers that will do anything to be part of the in group at school, it is not so much as a lose group of well meaning women, but a cabal of strategic mothers with a laser like focus on their kids and their friendships

Are you getting any help for your paranoia and delusional thinking?

fedge Love it! If only it was as easy as that!!!!

There is a group of mothers of children in my son’s class who go out for dinner together and whose children go to the same sports clubs, but I don’t view them as a “clique” or assume they’re judging or deliberately excluding me. They’re just a group of woman who are friends and obviously enjoy each other’s company. Good for them!

This is the thing. I don't really understand why people feel so threatened by this. In all walks of society people form friendship groups which by definition exclude people.

There's no requirement for all mums to include all other mums at their children's schools. Like anywhere else, people choose their friends.

I can understand formerbabes point about the fear that it reflects not only on you but on your children. But I think people need to get a bit of a grip tbh. You can't prevent friendship groups developing anwhere in life.

For the sake of your children and what they learn about social interaction you have to learn how to navigate this and model an appropriate reaction to it without disintegrating into paranoid suspicion about this just because some mum has once failed to say hello to you.

@speakout

The misogynistic bile people are falling over themselves to spout on here as soon as someone mentions the phrase ‘school mums’ beggars belief.

I agree completely.
Why do women suddenly turn into competitive bitches and join part of a destructive clique when they have to drop off children at school?
I have been doing drop offs at school for many years.
There have been a small minority of women who consider themselves apha mothers, set up cliques etc, but no more than any other environment like a work place.
The majority of women ( and it tends to be mostly women, but that's another story) and just trying to get by as best thay can- dreading another day at work, feelig isolated at home, trying to hide their yogurt stained shirt with a big coat.
As a SAHM for many years these small school gate exchanges were a lifeline, sometimes the only other adult contact I had in a whole day, and I suspect these small conversations were important to other women too. Some of my closest friendships have been made at the school gate.

OP I am sorry you are finding it so tough, I would suggest you try to find some help for your anxiety.

Totally agree with you. I try to be nice to everyone and I'd say 99% of the time people are nice back. I have never encountered this 'school bitch mum' though I have met plenty of nasty men.

Why do women suddenly turn into competitive bitches and join part of a destructive clique when they have to drop off children at school?

They don't. Except in the fevered imagination of bonkers MN'ers.

@upsidedownwavylegs

The misogynistic bile people are falling over themselves to spout on here as soon as someone mentions the phrase ‘school mums’ beggars belief.

Yep.

Op, it is social anxiety. You feel judged by them and you are uncinfident. I feel a bit like this sometimes and its when I feel inadequate innsome way. I then force myself to say a cheery hallo to someone as I know its not good for my MH to slink in and out thinking the world is against me.

It massively depends on luck. I wouldn't have believed in school mum cliques if I'd just had my eldest DC. The parents were welcoming..yes, some mums were more friendly with each other than the rest but were still approachable and kids weren't excluded based on parents friendships.

Then my second DC started school. It's hellish. You can literally stand next to someone and say hi and be ignored. The tone is set by the main queen bee mum...she gives dirty looks and gossips spitefully to her mates about mums who aren't in the clique. It's created a nasty culture of exclusion and fear. You're either besties or shit on their shoe.

Do you have actual evidence of them being judgemental or are you just assigning these characteristics to them in your head because you are depressed and have shaky self-esteem? The harshest judgements often come from the voice in our own head, but we use other (oblivious and probably perfectly nice) people as made-up mouthpieces for our own harsh views ourselves.

What's that quote... "People wouldn't worry so much about what others think of them if the realised how rarely they actually do." or something like that. These people are busy with their own lives and issues. When you think they're staring at you and judging you, they are probably actually thinking about what they're going to cook for dinner, what level reading book their dc is on or whether their dh fancies the next-door neighbour.

Cliques exist everywhere , but the school gates are the worst.
It's not in people's imaginations at all.
People can be so rotten at times.
It's learning coping mechanisms that work.
Not letting them get to you.

@formerbabe

It massively depends on luck. I wouldn't have believed in school mum cliques if I'd just had my eldest DC. The parents were welcoming..yes, some mums were more friendly with each other than the rest but were still approachable and kids weren't excluded based on parents friendships.

Then my second DC started school. It's hellish. You can literally stand next to someone and say hi and be ignored. The tone is set by the main queen bee mum...she gives dirty looks and gossips spitefully to her mates about mums who aren't in the clique. It's created a nasty culture of exclusion and fear. You're either besties or shit on their shoe.

This sounds like a problem with a specific person you’ve encountered who creates a negative dynamic, though. That’s not a school gate thing, it’s an arsehole thing.

I definitely get it as am generally quite socially anxious and was always worried about my DC starting school and this scenario.

But actually even though I keep myself to myself, don’t hang around the playground and didn’t know anyone as I’m not from the area, most of the mums seem fine, even if we don’t really chat we smile and say hello and exchange a few words. Our WhatsApp group isn’t competitive just seems like a normal bunch of people doing their best.

I think maybe just stop giving it so much thought? Mums are humans like everyone else. Maybe those ones you think are cliquey are shy too so sticking to the group they know? Everyone has their own stuff going on and are probably not paying you much attention to be honest. If anyone was genuinely rude or judgemental towards you... well, do you really give a shit? They don’t know you.

But surely its normal to invite only your friends to playdates? Or invite only your friends to parties? Who else do you invite?

If people are acting as they do on this thread, then obviously people arent going to talk to them? If you dont want to talk to people they will pick up on it. Im not particularly inclined to talk to someone who thinks im bitchy or unpleasant.

What happens when you invite their DC over do these people not return the favour? Is that the problem?

Im not saying there wont ever be cliques. There will be, and there will be social climbers and unpleasant bitchy people. But for all 30 odd sets of parents to be cliquey in so many schools? For there to be a culture of cliqueness that needs the majority of parents to subsrcibe to it and I just dont believe that. I find it hard to believe the majority of parents will not return a playdate invite for example

formerbabe You can see that some posts on here have no idea or experience of how awful it can be, honestly I would have laughed if someone had suggested schools can be a battleground of groups and cliques and the petty behaviour that plays out every day, I would have probably suggested they get their heads tested too, but honestly I have reviewed and update my own view after witnessing some pretty serious stuff over the years.
Bullying of parents, bullying of kids by other parents, fall outs and spiteful behaviour that was breathtaking to watch, and general low level stress most days. This is not a fiction in my experience, and we were one of the lucky ones and managed to swerve it, but it wasn't nice to see how upset some people became, and the impact on their family life/MH was horrible.

And we haven't even started on the affairs! But that is a whole new thread!!

I've worked in a primary for years and seen a few bust ups outside and children crying because of family issues and people not getting on. It turns out its been like it since nursery with some families almost at war with each other. Lots of different reasons for it, but it happens more than you think. It can create a toxic atmosphere for the children as well as the parents.

Very glad I don't recognise any of this. I enjoyed my years at the primary school gate, made some friends who are still friends now our kids are at secondary, don't think I made any enemies or alienated anyone. I did make an effort to build relationships with people and having a (mutual) support network of parents felt like something I wanted to prioritise, even though I am quite shy.

I think it is true to say that different parent year-groups have different dynamics (like different cohorts of children), but in my case that was the difference between one very friendly, proactive broad group of people and a less friendly (but not unfriendly) group who were still able to get on together e.g. to organise class leaver's party.

It's hard to tell from the OP if you think this is an internal anxiety problem or a problem of managing difficult people. I hope you're able to find a way forward that works for you, it sounds horrid.

@Friendsoftheearth

formerbabe You can see that some posts on here have no idea or experience of how awful it can be, honestly I would have laughed if someone had suggested schools can be a battleground of groups and cliques and the petty behaviour that plays out every day, I would have probably suggested they get their heads tested too, but honestly I have reviewed and update my own view after witnessing some pretty serious stuff over the years. Bullying of parents, bullying of kids by other parents, fall outs and spiteful behaviour that was breathtaking to watch, and general low level stress most days. This is not a fiction in my experience, and we were one of the lucky ones and managed to swerve it, but it wasn't nice to see how upset some people became, and the impact on their family life/MH was horrible.

To be honest your description of your own behaviour didn’t sound that nice. You specifically told someone you sound friendly - ‘the over friendly ones are the worst, no offence’ (then laughed it off when other people chimed in to support her) and how you avoided a friendly woman who ‘lay in wait for her next victim’ because she invited you/your kids to things. That doesn’t make it sound like you were a shocked witness of unkind behaviour, it makes you sound like a snide who behaves in the exact way you’re criticising.