Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

Go to the cms

Get a court order for contact.

Thanks very much for your reply.

Contact has never really been an issue thankfully, just the constant grief I get about money.

Yes I would go down CMS route. If your earnings go down so do her payments and she'll have to put up with it. She should count herself lucky, I get £200 off my kids' dad for two kids and he never sees them

You sprout the same crap as every bloke over having to pay maintenance, it's so predictable.
If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare, or look after your DD on top.

Your debts are your own and nothing to do with your ex.

Go through the CSA, but do not come on here being a Disney Dad because that's exactly what you are.

From what your saying she seems to be in the wrong probably doesn't want CNS involved as they take a small percentage and you will pay less. I'm waiting for court with my ex he hasn't paid in over a year, literally fingers crossed for 200 😭 sad really. There's no back payment either.

My last comment was aimed at WithoutATrace by the way

@toiletpaper

Yes I would go down CMS route. If your earnings go down so do her payments and she'll have to put up with it. She should count herself lucky, I get £200 off my kids' dad for two kids and he never sees them

Thanks for your reply.

I will contact CMS tomorrow.

That’s not good, I love spending time with my daughter, shame not everyone wants to see their kids.

@byebyeboyee

From what your saying she seems to be in the wrong probably doesn't want CNS involved as they take a small percentage and you will pay less. I'm waiting for court with my ex he hasn't paid in over a year, literally fingers crossed for 200 😭 sad really. There's no back payment either.

Thanks for replying,

I don’t really know how the CMS thing really works, just want to put a stop to all the arguing. At least that way, there is no disputing the amount.

Hi op, I think you have been more than fair.

So many dads don’t pay nearly enough ( my ex included) and I think the CMS is a good starting point.

I suspect that your ex doesn’t want to go down this avenue as she will receive considerably less than she is even now.

I understand that you potentially involving them is not for you to pay less but for your ex to see that you are indeed paying what you should ( and possibly more ) and seeing as your overtime is not guaranteed they will base the amount on your basic salary.

You sound like a lovely dad. You know that you’re doing your best and that your daughter has consistency and lots of love. I would again suggest using the CMS to your ex so that the name calling at least can stop and she may realise that what you pay is a decent amount.

Best of luck

The CMS will only take a percentage if you don't do direct pay (I think thats the right name for it).
They try and encourage this in as many cases as possible. By all means contact them and get them to make an assessment as to how much you have to pay, but if you pay it in full and on time every month they don't need any more involvement than making the initial assessment.

Was your previous arrangement worked out on your income including overtime? That's fairly unusual ime as overtime isn't guaranteed.

Remember that whatever the CMS tell you to pay is the minimum, if you can afford to pay more then that's great.

And the PPs comments about your ex being lucky because they get less, what a crock of shit. I get 100% of sweef fa. As assessed by the CMS. Does that mean anyone getting maintenence is 'lucky'. No. It means they are getting what they are entitled to and don't have an ex fiddling the system like mine.

I'd also stop loaning her money, esp if she's then going to refuse to pay. She has a partner, she can get loans from him!

Really showing your true colours there when someone said something you didn't want to hear. Nothing personal, but men coming to Mumsnet to get advice and slag off women doesn't sit well with me.

@Zoflorabore

Hi op, I think you have been more than fair.

So many dads don’t pay nearly enough ( my ex included) and I think the CMS is a good starting point.

I suspect that your ex doesn’t want to go down this avenue as she will receive considerably less than she is even now.

I understand that you potentially involving them is not for you to pay less but for your ex to see that you are indeed paying what you should ( and possibly more ) and seeing as your overtime is not guaranteed they will base the amount on your basic salary.

You sound like a lovely dad. You know that you’re doing your best and that your daughter has consistency and lots of love. I would again suggest using the CMS to your ex so that the name calling at least can stop and she may realise that what you pay is a decent amount.

Best of luck

Thank you for your reply,

I was told that they calculate the amount based on your gross earnings which also includes any variable earnings (which I always thought was odd as it’s not guaranteed). I’ll give them a buzz tomorrow and see what they say.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

The CMS will only take a percentage if you don't do direct pay (I think thats the right name for it). They try and encourage this in as many cases as possible. By all means contact them and get them to make an assessment as to how much you have to pay, but if you pay it in full and on time every month they don't need any more involvement than making the initial assessment. Was your previous arrangement worked out on your income including overtime? That's fairly unusual ime as overtime isn't guaranteed. Remember that whatever the CMS tell you to pay is the minimum, if you can afford to pay more then that's great.

And the PPs comments about your ex being lucky because they get less, what a crock of shit. I get 100% of sweef fa. As assessed by the CMS. Does that mean anyone getting maintenence is 'lucky'. No. It means they are getting what they are entitled to and don't have an ex fiddling the system like mine.

Hi thanks for replying,

The amount was calculated taking my overtime into account as it’s based on gross earnings which I was led to believe it included. Perhaps I understood it wrongly.

I don't know if it's me who's out of touch but I almost fell over when I saw your giving her £500 a month I think that's amazing of you. I think you need to seek help and advice as others have suggested. You sound like an amazing dad my child's father pays me not one penny. And I'm only 22 and he's 34 so he earns a heck of a lot more than me and should be more mature. It's very hard when the other parent is so unreasonable I feel your pain

@WitchOfTheWest

I'd also stop loaning her money, esp if she's then going to refuse to pay. She has a partner, she can get loans from him!

I stopped lending money ages ago as none of it was coming back.

Seems more than fair to me. She’s going to take, take, take. No reason she can’t work, she doesn’t want or need to work with all this maintenance coming in.

Stop loaning her money, you will never get it back.

You could be right about the gross income. I'm on the opposite side of the CMS in that I'm the receiving (or not) parent in my case so I'm not 100% on what income they actually use.
Good luck. You sound like a good dad to me!

@BullshitVivienne

Really showing your true colours there when someone said something you didn't want to hear. Nothing personal, but men coming to Mumsnet to get advice and slag off women doesn't sit well with me.

What true colours are they? Somebody was rude to me so I replied accordingly.

I came on here to seek advice as I felt something isn’t right with my situation. I didn’t come on to slag off my ex, I apologise if it came across that way, I have merely stated facts.

A few things:

1. The CMS is the bare minimum and a decent parent will willing pay more towards their child’s care.
2. Who calculated the amount of maintenance to be paid? Unless you are earning shitloads, I think 500quid a month is pretty decent. Use the online calculator yourself to figure what is correct (and remember that ‘correct’ = bare minimum)
3. Continue to pay the correct amount as calculated by your current income (and increase/decrease it when your salary increases/decreases).
4. Pay more than the CMS amount via bank transfer to ensure a record and label it as ‘additional child support’. Also continue to buy things your daughter needs directly.
5. Keep records of and texts/emails/conversations about the loan. You could take her to small claims court if you wanted but as the mother of your child, perhaps you should be more willing to write it off in the knowledge that it would have helped your child in some way (although possibly not as much as you would want).
6. Never loan money again.
7. Consider getting a four order to solidify access arrangements. Nothing in your post screams Disney Dad to me.

@Fran1997

I don't know if it's me who's out of touch but I almost fell over when I saw your giving her £500 a month I think that's amazing of you. I think you need to seek help and advice as others have suggested. You sound like an amazing dad my child's father pays me not one penny. And I'm only 22 and he's 34 so he earns a heck of a lot more than me and should be more mature. It's very hard when the other parent is so unreasonable I feel your pain

Thankyou

A lot of people have told me that I pay too much but seeing as that’s the amount the CMS site came up with, I went with that and I’ve never batted an eyelid.

I hope you manage to get things sorted with your payments.

@Suzi888

Seems more than fair to me. She’s going to take, take, take. No reason she can’t work, she doesn’t want or need to work with all this maintenance coming in.

Stop loaning her money, you will never get it back.

Hi,

I haven’t loaned her money for a good while now, learnt my lesson now!

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

You could be right about the gross income. I'm on the opposite side of the CMS in that I'm the receiving (or not) parent in my case so I'm not 100% on what income they actually use. Good luck. You sound like a good dad to me!

Thankyou for the nice comment.

I only assumed that they included overtime as to me gross earnings means the whole lot. I shall find out tomorrow.

@WattleOn

A few things:

1. The CMS is the bare minimum and a decent parent will willing pay more towards their child’s care.
2. Who calculated the amount of maintenance to be paid? Unless you are earning shitloads, I think 500quid a month is pretty decent. Use the online calculator yourself to figure what is correct (and remember that ‘correct’ = bare minimum)
3. Continue to pay the correct amount as calculated by your current income (and increase/decrease it when your salary increases/decreases).
4. Pay more than the CMS amount via bank transfer to ensure a record and label it as ‘additional child support’. Also continue to buy things your daughter needs directly.
5. Keep records of and texts/emails/conversations about the loan. You could take her to small claims court if you wanted but as the mother of your child, perhaps you should be more willing to write it off in the knowledge that it would have helped your child in some way (although possibly not as much as you would want).
6. Never loan money again.
7. Consider getting a four order to solidify access arrangements. Nothing in your post screams Disney Dad to me.

Hi, thanks for replying,

I’m more than happy to pay what I have previously once my earnings increase again, I just want to get something in place just to end all the arguing as it does nobody any good especially my daughter.

I know I’ll never get that money back so I’ll just draw a line under it, move on and learn from my mistakes.

I’ve always made payments via standing order and everything that I pay is marked as child maintenance.

I don’t think access will be a problem, I’ve never had a problem seeing her but if I do, I’ll seek legal advice.