Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

There are jobs around that fit in with school hours, most definitely.

Where are all these jobs in the current climate?

There are literally no jobs like that around where I live.

Short version - you are crazy if you think it costs more than £1000 per month to raise a child

These types of comments always get me too.

I can't remember a time where I've spent a thousand pounds in one month on my child.

As pointed out, if the other parent is having overnight access I don't count the bigger house thing because the other parent will need the same. So it's slightly increased bills etc... Still struggle to see how that comes to an additional £1k a month. Maybe I'm not providing enough for my child?

Cleaning jobs, jobs in schools...?

@YarToTheNar Wish the courts agreed with you re the house issue. My ex-husband still lIves in the five bed exec marital home seven years on. We're still renting a small two/three bed. It's 50/50 custody for two kids so zero maintenance of course.

There aren’t any school office jobs advertised and you need qualifications to be a TA or teacher and the cleaning jobs all have a very early start they aren’t school hours.

I'd infer the reason why your ex is so cross is that you keep changing the maintenance amount. If you go via CMS - and stick to it or opt for Direct Pay - she'll have consistency. Even if you sometimes give her "extra" maintenance (as CMS is a minimum, not a maximum) then at least she'll know that is extra and not to be relied on as part of her fixed monthly budget for your child. Many people find uncertainty to be a stress-factor and, during a pandemic, I'd imagine many people are even more prone to stress and the typical side-effects. I think it's not so much about the amount - it's the inconsistency. HTH

There are jobs out there for parents if they really want employment. Of course I appreciate less of them in this current climate, but I do think there are too many women that solely rely on their ex-partners to provide for their kids, even before Covid.

Actually, the Child Poverty Action Group has calculated the average cost of raising a child to 18 for a single parent to be £185,000. So £1000 per month is not a wholly unreasonable figure, especially for a child with a parent earning well above the national average.

More soberingly, they've also calculated that, on average, lone parents working full-time on median earnings fall £60 per week short of reaching a decent living standard.

Single parents really do have a mill-stone around their neck, even if they want/are able to work.

You shouldn’t be cutting maintenance payments- that’s just shitty behaviour.

I see comments like this and wonder where people think money actually comes from. If don't have any I can't pull it out of my arse just to avoid being called a deadbeat Dad or something.

Of course kids come first, but once there's no money, there's no money. That's not "shitty behaviour" it's basic maths.

@Nicknamegoeshere

There are jobs out there for parents if they really want employment. Of course I appreciate less of them in this current climate, but I do think there are too many women that solely rely on their ex-partners to provide for their kids, even before Covid.

I agree. I get £112 a month in maintenance from my daughter's dad, and at one time I received nothing at all. She's now 14 and the majority of money towards her upbringing has come from me and me alone - I worked my arse off to establish a very good career so that I can provide for her. I've never stopped working her whole life apart from 8 months of maternity leave. Has it been incredibly hard work? Of course it has! But is it possible? Yes it is. If you really want to provide for your child and not rely solely on your ex. My partner's exW is a prime example- all she's interested in is taking his money each month, no interest in getting a job to support her children as well. Infuriates me.

By the way OP, you sound like a good Dad and you're doing your best in the circumstances. You can't help a decrease in income due to a global pandemic. As another poster had pointed out there are lots of "anti men" attitudes on here - a lot of these comments are simply a projection of that. So ignore.

@DynamoKev

You shouldn’t be cutting maintenance payments- that’s just shitty behaviour.

I see comments like this and wonder where people think money actually comes from. If don't have any I can't pull it out of my arse just to avoid being called a deadbeat Dad or something.

Of course kids come first, but once there's no money, there's no money. That's not "shitty behaviour" it's basic maths.

Basic maths and common sense logic go swiftly out the window when a man dares to post on here about maintenance!! It's the rules, didn't you know....

@WithoutATtrace

You sprout the same crap as every bloke over having to pay maintenance, it's so predictable. If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare, or look after your DD on top.

Your debts are your own and nothing to do with your ex.

Go through the CSA, but do not come on here being a Disney Dad because that's exactly what you are.

OP is not spouting "crap". If mother gets a job OP won't have to pay a penny more under CMS regulations.

I suspect someone has some issues they need to work through.

“£500 per month doesn't pay for a decent life for a child....” crikey. That’s a lot to some people.

@LouJ85. You have done amazingly, but there is no reason why, when a child has two parents, the mum/resident parent should bear most of the burden of raising that child. It should be spread equally between the parents.

Yes, single parents can get by without help from the other parent. They can do it on their own. But why should they have to?

The truth is, caring is relentless and undervalued. Its rewards are long-term in the relationship which you develop with your child but it doesn't bring much instant gratification and it has a huge opportunity cost. Too many non-resident parents are therefore happy to leave the majority of it to their exes. There are some fathers who would love to be the primary carer or have 50/50 shared care, but a lot of dads would rather walk over hot coals than have their children full-time.

@MessAllOver
In an ideal world a 50/50 financial split would be great. But I earn significantly more than my ex because I've worked my arse off for it, so it stands to reason I contribute more to my daughter. If we had stayed together the majority of our living costs would fall to me anyway as there'd still be an inequity across our salaries. It's common sense to me. That's why I don't mind £112 a month from my ex as I know it reflects his earnings. If his earnings went down lower, I'd still be fine because I've ensured that over the years with my hard work.

I agree in terms of the emotional investment in raising children, but there's absolutely nothing in this OP's post that suggests he tries to dodge that responsibility; in fact I read the opposite. So I have no idea why he's getting such a hard time other than others' projection from their own experiences with their own ex partners.

@Fran1997

I don't know if it's me who's out of touch but I almost fell over when I saw your giving her £500 a month I think that's amazing of you. I think you need to seek help and advice as others have suggested. You sound like an amazing dad my child's father pays me not one penny. And I'm only 22 and he's 34 so he earns a heck of a lot more than me and should be more mature. It's very hard when the other parent is so unreasonable I feel your pain

Is it a lot? We don't know how much op earns, but since he said wages are down £1,200 to £1,500, I think we can assume he is on a decent wage.

My daughter receives over £700 a month which is the bare minimum which CMS calculates for his wage.

You won’t have to pay for childcare if your ex gets a job
Neither will you have to arrange to look after your child if your ex works
That’s all down to her to sort out
You would only need to arrange child care if it was to fall on your time

@im5050

You won’t have to pay for childcare if your ex gets a job Neither will you have to arrange to look after your child if your ex works That’s all down to her to sort out You would only need to arrange child care if it was to fall on your time

Where on earth does this notion come from that non resident parent will also pay half the childcare costs on top of maintenance?! The payments I received from my ex never changed regardless of my childcare costs! 🤷‍♀️

Should add that before she got the CMS involved he paid her £200 one month, £100 another and nothing for the other months at all. He only pays because he has to.

The CMS based the payments that she finally received on the last tax return submitted to HMRC.

@LouJ85. I think the entirety of what I'm saying is this - EOW and £500 does not by itself a good father make.

It sounds like in your case, you've done the majority of the care AND earnt most of the money. So, while I'd never want to put words in your mouth, my impression is that really your ex hasn't brought all that much to the table (and certainly not 50%). The load's been mostly on you, as it is for a lot of women.

If I dumped my DS on his dad and skipped away into the sunset, £500 per month wouldn't come near covering the cost of the 24/7 nanny he would have to hire to enable him to do his job properly. Let alone all DC's clothes, food, activities, days out, other expenses etc.

CMS is the bare minimum a NRP is expected to pay, it isn’t enough by any means however £500 a month for one child is a lot compared to most. I know someone who gets £270 for three children and another woman who gets £10 a week for her child because the Dad (who never sees the child) doesn’t work.

I think your ex is annoyed because you keep changing the amount. If I were you I’d find an amount you can easily afford and just set up a standing order for that amount. She can’t argue against it because you’d still be paying more than the CMS minimum. Don’t accept her ranting and raving at you either, just hang up the phone or mute messages if she does that in future.

@YarToTheNar

Short version - you are crazy if you think it costs more than £1000 per month to raise a child

These types of comments always get me too.

I can't remember a time where I've spent a thousand pounds in one month on my child.

As pointed out, if the other parent is having overnight access I don't count the bigger house thing because the other parent will need the same. So it's slightly increased bills etc... Still struggle to see how that comes to an additional £1k a month. Maybe I'm not providing enough for my child?

Childcare is how it costs that much. And the bigger house is relevant - my DH has our 3 dcs only one night a week (and often only 2 of them in the end), he can do that in a small 2 bed flat, but that's not sustainable for me to do in the long term.

@MessAllOver
You're right that I've done the majority. But not necessarily with her dad's blessing. At one time, he wanted to take her off me full time. Refusal to bring her back after agreed contact time, me needing to get a solicitor to get her home etc... I've been through all that when she was younger. He lives in a different county too so she wasn't attending school when he kept her away from me those times. It was hell and he went about it all the wrong way, granted. But my point is, It's not always a simple case of the dad being happy to leave the majority to the mum and just step in when he can be arsed. My ex clearly wanted the exact polar opposite and I had to fight to keep her (eventually made easier by her making her own choices to stay with me as she got older).

It's not always clear cut, is my point, and non residents fathers get a disproportionately hard time on here.