Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

I hope to out earn my ex by the end of this year. If I had young children there’s no fucking way on the face if god’s green earth I’d pay him a penny.

Once you split, except in cases where spousal maintenance is ordered, you’re split. And if it’s 50/50 then no maintenance is due. And that’s just how it is.

It screwed me over after I split because I got fuck all. Absolutely nothing. Ever. No share of house. No maintenance. Nothing.

But I wouldn’t want to give him share of what I’ve worked for.
If I’d wanted that or he had wanted that then we should have stayed married.

We didn’t. And sometimes life just isn’t fair.

I made a choice not to have a proper live in relationship and only have casual boyfriends until my children were grown up. I made a choice to live on my own and not have any more children so that I could retrain (working part time going to uni full time) and get myself to where I am now.

Life is all about choices. And sometimes you make shit ones. And sometimes life isn’t fair.

Like I said. I can either rail against the world and how it’s not fair, or I can knuckle under and work my bollocks off to get on.

I chose the latter.

@Dddaddy

I hope to out earn my ex by the end of this year. If I had young children there’s no fucking way on the face if god’s green earth I’d pay him a penny.

Once you split, except in cases where spousal maintenance is ordered, you’re split. And if it’s 50/50 then no maintenance is due. And that’s just how it is.

It screwed me over after I split because I got fuck all. Absolutely nothing. Ever. No share of house. No maintenance. Nothing.

But I wouldn’t want to give him share of what I’ve worked for.
If I’d wanted that or he had wanted that then we should have stayed married.

We didn’t. And sometimes life just isn’t fair.

I made a choice not to have a proper live in relationship and only have casual boyfriends until my children were grown up. I made a choice to live on my own and not have any more children so that I could retrain (working part time going to uni full time) and get myself to where I am now.

Life is all about choices. And sometimes you make shit ones. And sometimes life isn’t fair.

Like I said. I can either rail against the world and how it’s not fair, or I can knuckle under and work my bollocks off to get on.

I chose the latter.

I applaud your attitude. And I agree with what you've said.

Go to cms.

I get 160 for 3 kids from my ex...A MONTH

I hate these examples especially from other women about feckless women who don’t care about their children or whatever you are trying to prove. The fact remains that on the whole your example means the children only get a taste of being able to ‘do fun things’.

I hate examples of NRP dickhead dads. Because some of them bloody decent, and some aren't.. same as women.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm making a point that sometimes the RP has ample opportunity to improve their financial situation for the sake the children, and chooses not to. The NRP should not be held accountable financially for the rp's choices in such situations.

The fact remains that on the whole your example means the children only get a taste of being able to ‘do fun things’.

And they'd be able to do even more fun things with mum if she chose to hold down a job. Which in my example, she made an active choice to lower her own income because she doesn't like early mornings. Can you explain how and why my partner should fund the shortfall for her in this situation when he makes a choice to work his arse off to provide for his kids?

Thank you. I’m working very very hard at the moment (I have 3 jobs - one full time and two others of a day a week I really shouldn’t be on here lol) and I’m hoping it will pay dividends.

I don’t think it does any good to complain all the time. It’s not a good example for kids.

My mental health is crap, with all this Covid shit, I’m physically disabled, and I’m in a council house.

But the only person who can change any of that is me.

I didn’t fight my ex for every penny back when we split. I didn’t fight him for anything

Was that the wrong thing? I can’t say. What I can say is that the me that is me NOW would fight him tooth and claw and absolutely take every penny I was entitled to.

But I wasn’t that person then and that’s ok. I have to let it go because to do anything else only hurts me. He certainly doesn’t give a toss.

@MessAllOver Agreed! But I'm not in the position to afford either.My "basic" barrister costs £1000 for a 30 min hearing as it is! 😣

@LouJ85

The fact remains that on the whole your example means the children only get a taste of being able to ‘do fun things’.

And they'd be able to do even more fun things with mum if she chose to hold down a job. Which in my example, she made an active choice to lower her own income because she doesn't like early mornings. Can you explain how and why my partner should fund the shortfall for her in this situation when he makes a choice to work his arse off to provide for his kids?

In your example he doesn’t provide for his kids; he sometimes provides for his kids. @MessAllOver posted the breakdown of actual costs for child care and the shortfall. Unless your DP pays more than that he isn’t providing for his kids he’s not even covering half of their expenses.

While I agree with you no one should be living off their ex. The issue is that the children miss out and both parents in your example are shitty. She doesn’t want to work for whatever reason and he’d have his kids miss out because he’s resentful of her. Why won’t he have them 50/50? Although I don’t generally agree with 50/50, I have little respect for men that slag off their exes (and their current partners who agree with them) but they aren’t actually willing to have the children and actually provide for them.

In your example he doesn’t provide for his kids; he sometimes provides for his kids.

No, he consistently provides for his kids.

In answer to why can't do 50:50, his job which I'm not getting into on here means he is away a lot. That was the case when he and exW met and she married him and chose to have kids with him knowing and accepting that he works away a lot.

@SoVeryLost

My partner is also not a "shitty parent" thanks very much.

@MessAllOver posted the breakdown of actual costs for child care and the shortfall.

If you'd paid any attention to my previous posts you'd have seen that in this case the RP has ZERO childcare costs because she has a live in partner who does a lot of the running around (for example he's the one who generally meets us half way to drop off / pick up kids, not her), and she has an abundance of family members around her (including my DP's mother) who always offer to help with childcare when the kids aren't with us. Therefore she has no need for childcare, and still chooses not to work. Yet my DP is the "shitty parent", working his arse off since day one to provide for them. Ok then.

he’d have his kids miss out because he’s resentful of her.

This is all your own assumption, you're filling in r gaps with complete fiction. Resentful of her? That's hilarious. And his kids are missing out on nothing from our end - they have a good dad doing his best for them. If they're missing out it certainly isn't on us.

I will be disengaging from this discussion now because my energy and time is much better used elsewhere.

Thank you. I’m working very very hard at the moment (I have 3 jobs - one full time and two others of a day a week I really shouldn’t be on here lol) and I’m hoping it will pay dividends.

I'm sure it will @Dddaddy - and bloody good for you!! It can't be easy given your situation but I very much admire your approach.

@LouJ85

In your example he doesn’t provide for his kids; he sometimes provides for his kids.

No, he consistently provides for his kids.

In answer to why can't do 50:50, his job which I'm not getting into on here means he is away a lot. That was the case when he and exW met and she married him and chose to have kids with him knowing and accepting that he works away a lot.

So he can’t be a parent because of his job and I’m guessing his ex also didn’t work when he decided to have children with her. Why can’t he retrain and have the children 50/50? There is always an excuse as to why they can’t have their children more, my job, the ex won’t let me, the courts would never find in my favour etc... the truth is it’s easier to vilify the ex.

If she worked she’d need childcare, I used the example @MessAllOver posted as a way of showing he most likely didn’t contribute 50% of the actual costs of bringing up a child. The cost of having an extra bedroom, the extra council tax due to having a bigger property, the associated increase of gas, water and electric bills, the cost of uniform, the cost of clothes, extra food, soap etc... these are the real costs, it’s almost impossible to put a real cost for the RP. A friend’s barrister worked out that a third of her month outgoings could directly relate to her DS.
I know men who do pay over the odds, my brother does, double what CMS recommends. I don’t think he’s a saint for it.

@LouJ85

So what about in a situation where it's 50/50 but one party earns significantly more than the other and also has a much greater earning capacity?

By this logic, if my ex and I had 50:50 care of my DD, I'd have to pay him maintenance? Because I earn significantly more and I have greater earning potential because I'm educated to PhD level and trained in a specialist area, whereas he does not have any specialist training and is a delivery driver. However, his wife is a SAHM who was gifted a very large farm house by her well off parents - they have acres of land and ponies. So he really landed on his feet! My daughter loves it there, unsurprisingly. We live in an average house and unlike ex and his wife we pay a mortgage. But by your logic, if we went 50:50, I'd have to pay him?

This post probably explains your hostility to the issues raised best. Your issue isn’t that your DP’s ex doesn’t work, he won’t be paying maintenance forever so she’ll have to work in the end. It’s that your ex’s low earning means you as a household are paying more toward DP’s children the you receive, I assume?

If your ex was to pay 50% of the actual costs of bringing up your shared child, it would be less painful to see your DP do the same for his.

@SoVeryLost

I've skim read your posts but as I previously stated there is far too much inaccuracy and assumption in them for me to even begin to address it. So I wish you well, and I will be disengaging from you.

[quote LouJ85]@SoVeryLost

I've skim read your posts but as I previously stated there is far too much inaccuracy and assumption in them for me to even begin to address it. So I wish you well, and I will be disengaging from you. [/quote]
Lol! I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but I guess you just want to hate his ex. Hate away. The ex is always wrong until they aren't...

In any case what I posted above was a list of the REAL costs of bringing up a child not inaccuracy and assumption.

*your hostility to the issues raised

Your issue isn’t that your DP’s ex doesn’t work

If your ex was to pay 50% of the actual costs of bringing up your shared child, it would be less painful to see your DP do the same for his.

So he can’t be a parent because of his job

I’m guessing his ex also didn’t work when he decided to have children with her

the truth is it’s easier to vilify the ex.*

Here is a selection of some of the inaccuracies and assumptions you have made about me and my situation. There is a whole backstory relating to his exW which, if you knew, you wouldn’t be thinking the sun shone out of her arse, trust me.

But I have no time or energy to justify my life circumstances to strangers on the Internet.

@LouJ85

*your hostility to the issues raised

Your issue isn’t that your DP’s ex doesn’t work

If your ex was to pay 50% of the actual costs of bringing up your shared child, it would be less painful to see your DP do the same for his.

So he can’t be a parent because of his job

I’m guessing his ex also didn’t work when he decided to have children with her

the truth is it’s easier to vilify the ex.*

Here is a selection of some of the inaccuracies and assumptions you have made about me and my situation. There is a whole backstory relating to his exW which, if you knew, you wouldn’t be thinking the sun shone out of her arse, trust me.

But I have no time or energy to justify my life circumstances to strangers on the Internet.

Try reading. I never said the sun shone out of her arse. In actual fact if you were to post whole snippets instead of select statements I’ve said she’ll have to work in the end. In actual fact I’ve never asked you to justify your situation, you’ve come in and provided a personal experience to derail the fact CMS is generally pitiful and does not cover 50% of the costs of bringing up a child. However like I’ve said it’s not about the adults it’s about the children. An adult can be the worst person on earth I still don’t want their children to suffer.

I want children to not have to grow up where the main carer has to choose between essentials because the other parent doesn’t contribute properly to their children’s upbringing. What are you wanting for all children of separated parents?

Morning,

Just hopping on to let you know that the OP appears to have deregistered his account so obviously won't be returning to the thread. We're going to leave the thread to stand as there's a lot of useful information here.

Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to respond and offer advice.

@WithoutATtrace

You sprout the same crap as every bloke over having to pay maintenance, it's so predictable. If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare, or look after your DD on top.

Your debts are your own and nothing to do with your ex.

Go through the CSA, but do not come on here being a Disney Dad because that's exactly what you are.

He wont have to pay 50% of the childcare...he isn't liable for it, she is..he is paying maintenance which is to cover the day to day living costs of a child, which include child care...

Maybe the poor bloke could have cleared his debts a bit quicker if she wasnt ripping him off!

I agree, he should go through CMS, but the OP should be aware that they will take an additional 20% off him for the privilege, they will also take 3% off her...

May advice would be to send her through calculations based on the salary decreases, ensure you take off your pension contributions (take it off your gross salary before you do the calculations)...provide the calculations for the scenarios your have mentioned.
Use emails for future conversations regarding financial / child arrangement matters, these hold up better in court that texts..I would also advise you find any written communications surrounding you lending her the money you did, I would reminder her that it was a loan and that if isn't paid back, you will take her to the small claims court! That might shut the greedy cow up! Women like her get women a bad name...

Why do you think she was ripping him off of he paid the amount calculated by CMS?

I ran his figures, and he cut too deep with the overtime cut so it was below CMS.

Yes his ex sounds like an unpleasant lady, but is she really ripping him off, or is he paying the right amount of child support, which he cut quite steeply?

The loan was foolish if him, particularly when he clearly has his own money management issues,

But he still needs to pay child support. We are talking about a guy earning over £50k a year here.

May advice would be to send her through calculations based on the salary decreases, ensure you take off your pension contributions (take it off your gross salary before you do the calculations)...provide the calculations for the scenarios your have mentioned.

Yup good advice. This is what we have to do for DP's ex so she can see she's getting what she's entitled to.

The poster used cms - he earns a good bit more than your ex. He also said nearly £500, so it’s probably closer to £475.

@Ideasplease322 CMS also worked out my maintenance. OP didn't say how much his usual earnings are in his first post, only mentioned how much he was down on overtime . I said my ex earns 800 per week. That's a high wage where I live.