Child maintenance

[Orinoco82]

Hi all, this is my first post on here, feels a bit strange as I’m a bloke posting on Mumsnet but there we are!

I’m basically just after some advice and other folks opinion on an issue I’m having with my daughters mum regarding the maintenance that I pay to her monthly.

I’ll try not to go on too much so here goes.

I have a daughter who is 5 years old and lives with her mum. Her mum and I separated before she was born but I have been there since day one and have always paid maintenance on time and every time without fail and I have even given extra money and lent money (which I never got back) on occasion.

I normally pay just under £500 per month maintenance to my ex but when this Coronavirus crap first hit earlier this year and the country went into the first lock down, the company I work for basically cancelled all overtime and call out which would have a substantial impact on my earnings (approx down £1200-1500 per month). As soon as I found out my earnings were going to cut, I thought it only fair that I tell my ex that her maintenance will be reducing which, although not what she wanted, she didn’t give me too hard a hard time over. I normally do a lot of overtime as I have debts that I’m trying desperately to clear and I want to provide for my daughter at the same time. I said I will give what I can and hopefully the overtime will come back and I can start giving the normal amount again. I managed to give £300 as that was all I could manage that month.

After a month or so, some overtime returned and I was able to give a little more so I raised it to £400 per month. I have also bought my daughter clothes, shoes and other bits and bobs as any parent would do.

My company has now again removed all the overtime due to this second lockdown so I thought it right that I should tell my ex straight away that again, my earnings will be going down. This time she absolutely lost the plot and went nuts at me down the phone saying that I don’t provide for my child, make no time for my child, I’m a hopeless father etc.......... none of which is true.

I love my daughter dearly, she is all I have in the world. She lives over an hours drive away from where I live and I always collect her and drop her home and I’m more than happy to do this, my ex has dropped her to me 3 times in 5 years and every time asked me for £50 fuel for doing so (which I refused). I make sure that I have at least 2 weekends off per month so I can have her and spend time with her. If I finish work on a Friday at a reasonable time, I’ll go and pick her up for the weekend. If I’m off during the week, I’ll drive all the way down to where she is to pick her up from school and take her to the park and out for some dinner then get her back home and drive home again. If she has a school play or sports day or whatever, I’ll go there, watch her and then go to work. I honestly do the best I can so I find it very hurtful when I get told that I’m a hopeless father and I don’t provide. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I may be wrong, who knows.

The other thing that has annoyed me hugely is that she borrowed a hefty (to me at least) amount of money from me and when I mentioned this to her the other day (she’s owed to me for over 2 years), she says that because I have been giving less maintenance, then I can basically go and whistle for my money which I think is wrong.

The maintenance that I give her was worked out using the CMS calculator but we haven’t involved the CMS but I have told her that I now want to go down this route as I am sick of being told I’m not giving enough so at least this way, there can be no dispute. She has told me that she doesn’t want me to do this though. Don’t know why as surely it won’t affect her.

She is always telling me how she has no money yet she refuses to look for work, has a partner that works, has another child (who she gets maintenance for also). Surely if you’re that hard up for money, you’d do everything you could to find a part time job?Maybe that’s just me?!

I could understand her being angry with me if I was giving her a pittance and driving around in a lovely car, living in a big house and wearing fancy clothes etc........ but I have none of that. Yes I’m really into my cars but I haven’t had anything nice for quite some time but that is literally my only vice. My current car is worth about £1500 tops.

I’m very sorry, I’ve been rambling (more getting things off my chest I guess). I guess the question I’m asking is, am I really in the wrong to adjust the amount of maintenance I give considering I’m now earning considerably less money? I fully intend to pay the normal amount once my earnings go back up so I’m not looking to get away with not paying it, I’m not that kind of person.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read.

CMS is calculated on total income before tax but after pension contributions.

@WattleOn

CMS is calculated on total income before tax but after pension contributions.

That’s what I thought. The only thing I don’t get is how they can come up with an amount when the earnings can vary so much.

Like before all this corona stuff happened I was regularly doing 60+ hours overtime per month and then I’ve gone down to none.

You sound like a decent guy and a great dad.

But 1/7 of the childcare (EOW) and £500 per month isn't half of what it takes to raise a child.

So, yes, it does sound like your ex is being a little unreasonable. But I think you should prioritise the maintenance payments over your other expenses if possible. Because ultimately your ex is doing much more of the legwork than you are in raising this child.

But 1/7 of the childcare (EOW) and £500 per month isn't half of what it takes to raise a child.

The above part of what @MessAllOver said.

This is what it boils down to.

You’re not ‘amazing’ for paying what CMS calculated- that’s the bare minimum and the least of what any parent should be contributing.

You shouldn’t be cutting maintenance payments- that’s just shitty behaviour. Your ex is having to make up your shortfall when she is already paying and doing way more than her fair share. That’s why she is pissed off- don’t you get it?

And another thing- the fact that you can do 60 hours overtime- presumably your ex so is enabling you to do so by being there for your child? Have some appreciation.

Ignore the posts on here about being a "Disney dad", men can never do anything right for some people on here.

Equally though, people saying £500pm is "amazing" and that the ex should count herself lucky, no. £500pm is not amazing if it's in proportion to his income, I get £500pm from my ex, it's not "amazing" when his take home pay is £3000pm, he's hardly living on the breadline. And it's not "amazing" to be a decent father, it should be the norm.

Saying that, I think she is being unreasonable in this situation. A lot of us have had our incomes affected by Covid, I spent time on furlough so I had 20% less of my normal income, it happens.

@Orinoco82

Wow, how rude are you?

I’m not a ‘Disney Dad’ as you call me, I honestly do the best I can.

As for my debts, they are my debts and I am paying them off. I never said they were to do with my ex.

I’m not moaning about paying maintenance and I’m happy to pay what I need to pay.

I asked for people’s opinions, not to be insulted so you can sod off with your nasty comments.

You’re obviously are someone just like my ex who believes that the world revolves around them.

Truth hurts clearly, not rude just truthful. I do agree with you going through CSA and stated that.

I highly doubt his ex is having to make up the "shortfall" if she normally gets £500pm. I get that and it's more than enough, what if OP was only working a minimum wage job? His ex would have to manage on a lot less.

@BullshitVivienne

Really showing your true colours there when someone said something you didn't want to hear. Nothing personal, but men coming to Mumsnet to get advice and slag off women doesn't sit well with me.

Exactly, we can spot them straight away.

Surely the point here is not what is "reasonable" as between the two adults. £500 per month is more than reasonable in a world where most separated dads pay absolute peanuts for their children.

The point is that the OP and his ex have joint responsibility for providing the best life they can for this child. Children need two things, time and money. At the moment, the ex is providing nearly all the time and (through benefits? her partner?) a good chunk of the money. £500 per month doesn't pay for a decent life for a child.

Yes, the ex could go and get a job to earn more money if she needs it (although that might be tricky since she has another child who presumably she'd need to get childcare for and she'd need a job that fitted with school hours, so she might end up losing money rather than making it).

But she's already contributing more than the OP is towards raising the child.

You don't need a job fitting with school hours. Most people don't work jobs that fit with school hours. I'm a single parent and pay for a breakfast club, it's not expensive and I get most of it paid for by tax credits. Some people just want to make excuses.

@MessAllOver I agree, however he stated himself he does a lot of overtime, he could of spent more time with his daughter and helped his ex out, yet comes on here slagging her off saying she could get a job, moaned about having to drive for over an hour to pick his daughter up, moaned about his ex only dropping her off 3 times etc etc.

I would actively encourage CSA to mediate, he is still in full time employment, it's his overtime that has been cut, not his basic pay, and they will base it off last years income, so he stated the calculated based it at £500 which is the minimum, and yet he still decided to cut it. And that's where the issue is, I mean did he not think it would not create problems when you pay her short without any notice!

What excuse is she making @Waxonwaxoff0 ?

Well, it depends on the age of the other child, doesn't it, whether working is financially worthwhile?

Basic point stands though... she/her partner/the taxpayer if she claims benefits are doing most of the work of raising this child, not the OP who instead is getting off very lightly.

@WithoutATtrace I didn't mean her, I meant people on this thread. If she's getting £500pm normally that's plenty to help pay for wrap around childcare.

@WithoutATtrace
I think you are being harsh here!
I think the OP come across very well and wanting to do his best for his daughter and keeping the Mum up to date with his situation and wanting to provide something.
As well as spending some time with his Daughter.
I have posted before about my ex who has dodged the CMS for 12 years and due to Covid has been forced to go on benefits.... well guess what? My 3 children get the measley sum of £29.12 for ALL 3 a calendar month! He wishes to have nothing to do with them, but spouts to anyone who listens that I am withholding contact! Urm, no his choice not mine!
So to actually read a post like this OP, actually makes me think there are some Dads out there who are trying to do their best.
OP, I would definitely go down the CMS route, that way there is no comeback on you and it’s all in black and white. I’m pleased contact is no issue for you. But if in the future this proves otherwise, as other posters have said. You can always get a court order for regular contact.
All the best, I actually don’t think you are being unreasonable at all.

Or alternatively, the OP could offer 50/50 custody and then he wouldn't need to pay maintenance at all, then the ex could get a job working around that.

I think 50/50 is usually the "fairest" option so long as expenses are genuinely shared 50/50 and it's entered into in the best interests of the child and not to avoid maintenance. It may not work for every child, of course.

OP, have you ever considered asking for a 50/50 arrangement?

How will you do the 60 hours of overtime
A month when you’re doing 50% of the childcare?

As presumably you’re offering to do so your ex partner can work?

How much will paid childcare cost you?

Just go through cms although bare in mind they will calculate it on last years earnings not this years.

If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare, or look after your DD on top.

Ha, not true. Exp pays a generous £30 pe for 2 dc and has them every other weekend. As I have them in the week I'm responsible for all child care all school uniform - everything actually. The maintenance amount from cms is to cover all of it 🙄

On cms you cant just drop it because your income is changing for one month so go ahead fill your boots

If she gets a job, you will then also have to pay for 50% of the Childcare
Nope. Completely wrong. Wish people wouldn't post on threads if they have no idea about how the system works.

My ex has never paid a penny more than cms, even when I was absolutely on my arse and he was bringing in £££ in private work, and only sees the kids a couple of times a year now.

And you can guarantee if OP did go for 50:50, he'd be told he was just doing so to avoid maintenance, it's not best for the child etc etc... A lot of men can't win on here.