Dear Haters

[Buttonitboris]

Is it just me or are other Mumsnetters being bombarded with ads, on this site, from the Scottish Government entitled 'Dear Haters' followed by we won't stand for transphobia, race hate crimes etc. I am unreasonable in finding it deeply offensive to be addressed as Dear Hater and do Mumsnet HQ feel it appropriate that users are addressed in this way?

Are these ads appearing elsewhere or is this an attempt by the Scottish Government to shut down debate on this site regarding trans/women's rights?

@GCAcademic

Wait, what? We’re not allowed to link to For Women Scotland? Why not?

What?!

Your internet usage is heavily logged (how many seconds you spend on reading each particular face book post etc) you've undoubtedly picked up lots of assosiations with trans/gender rights which is what whoever wrote that advert wanted targeting

Oh, someone's already done some FOIs. No minutes at their meetings, how convenient.

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-201900000101/

Some interesting history here:

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-19-02031/

And this is a resurrected campaign first run in 2018:

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-18-03556/

@Elsewyre

Your internet usage is heavily logged (how many seconds you spend on reading each particular face book post etc) you've undoubtedly picked up lots of assosiations with trans/gender rights which is what whoever wrote that advert wanted targeting

You are ignoring those of us, including OP, who have said that we just don't. Only here....

Honestly. I was a teacher and now run my own business.

THIS is the only place I look at, read, discuss such things. I don't follow links without using Incognito etc. I never have. After 20 years it's just how I browse.

FWR is the forum here I read most...

From one of those FOIs:

'While the 2017 campaign targeted the lower socio-economic groups, the evaluation(4) showed that the younger part of this audience was more likely to see the campaign. They were also more likely to be a bystander to hate crime and most open to use of online reporting mechanics but less likely to be motivated to take action. Sixteen to 34 year olds were therefore identified as the target audience for further campaign activity.'

So they are targetting - or were targetting, this new campaign might have new targets - younger people and 'lower socio-economic groups'. I wonder how they decided to target these groups. Was there an evidence based decision, or did someone in the fancy ad agency just have a notion that these type of people were 'haters', 'racists' and other kind of prejudiced?

Its horrible, horrible social engineering.

Just the term itself, 'hater', is awful, inflammatory, judgemental, simplistic.

I fully support same-sex marriage, but I can recognise that others may struggle to reconcile it with their religious beliefs.

I fully support women's reproductive rights, but I can understand why others find the idea of abortion abhorrent.

I voted Remain and am pro Freedom of Movement, but I can empathise with people who have been impacted by poorly managed immigration and cultural integration in their communities.

I support every individual's right to express themselves in a way that feels right for them. I also support women's sex-based rights.

But there is no room for this nuance anymore, is there? I'm either Not A Hater or a Hater. And I'm guessing that by some people's standards, it is the latter.

This is where cancel culture and #nodebate gets you.

We soon see who the real 'haters' are when the english are brought up or a previous leaders sexual harrasment habit.

Oh, god, there's a series of videos, too.

This is the agency that did the campaign.

leith.co.uk/work/hate-crime

Dear ScotGov

We see you. We see your patronising dismissal, your divisive labelling, your attempts to bully and shame people in 'lower socio-economic classes'. We won't be putting up with it and you can expect our response at the ballot box.

Yours, the Scottish electorate

They are popping up on Facebook too. They aren’t addressing you directly fgs!

@BashfulClam

They are popping up on Facebook too. They aren’t addressing you directly fgs!

I think they probably are.

If you are a women, then...

• unless you agree that a transwoman is in every respect identical to someone born female

• unless you agree that anything less than complete freedom to self ID amounts to abuse

• unless you agree that a man who identifies as a woman is absolutely entitled to counsel rape victims

• unless you acknowledge that women shouldn't talk about periods because transwomen don't have them so it's discriminatory

• unless you welcome any man who chooses to ID as female to women only spaces such as loos and changing rooms

...then you are a hater. You're only not a hater if you agree 100% with everything above. Therefore I'm a hater. I'm in England, Scottish government feel free to do your worst.

Ah, someone has already reported these ads as hate crimes. Christian groups said they were anti-religious.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6255515/Hate-crime-posters-reported-hate-crime.html

@Babdoc

This is the same SNP who have just appointed a biological male as Women’s Officer. A transgender biological male who ran a rape crisis centre, dealing with traumatised women who wanted a female only service, and who then boasted about trying to make it “fun” for them. Any woman who still votes SNP needs her head examined.

@babdoc Do you get off on insulting SNP voters as much as you do insulting atheists?

Be fair, Babdoc has a point!

Anyone knowing all of that would have to think twice about their vote, wouldn't they?

@littlbrowndog

I live in Scotland and was most disturbed to see our justice minister saying that what we say in our homes could be reported as a hate crime.

The state now telling us what we can or cannot say in our homes

That is a really worrying prospect.

Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."? (Usually attrib. to Voltaire, but I think it was Emil Zola during the Dreyfus affair)

You can't stop people thinking what they think.

You ought not to stop people sharing their opinions.

You CAN and MUST stop people acting violently towards others, or discriminating against them. that's what legislation is for - not to police people in their own homes and destroy families.

@cheeseismydownfall

Just the term itself, 'hater', is awful, inflammatory, judgemental, simplistic.

I fully support same-sex marriage, but I can recognise that others may struggle to reconcile it with their religious beliefs.

I fully support women's reproductive rights, but I can understand why others find the idea of abortion abhorrent.

I voted Remain and am pro Freedom of Movement, but I can empathise with people who have been impacted by poorly managed immigration and cultural integration in their communities.

I support every individual's right to express themselves in a way that feels right for them. I also support women's sex-based rights.

But there is no room for this nuance anymore, is there? I'm either Not A Hater or a Hater. And I'm guessing that by some people's standards, it is the latter.

This is where cancel culture and #nodebate gets you.

THIS ^

I found it fascinating recently that so many of the liberal men I know on twitter, who will tweet a storm on just about every aspect of social justice cannot bring themselves to support women's reproductive rights in public or even women's right to speak on equal terms with men when they didn't agree with her (entirely mainstream) politics.

Critical theory has a lot to answer for, not least the word salads produced by its evangelists.

I doubt it's targeted at actual "Haters", however they are to be defined. For start, ads work by making you recognise yourself (or at least, your inspirational self) and establishing a common ground, so unless someone self-identifies as a "hater" they aren't going to hit the mark.

The ads actual target is the Intolerant Woke, who get to feel good feelings about the Scottish government and maybe be more likely to consider visiting, settling or investing there.

(Intolerant Woke as opposed to just woke. I don't mind the woke, I'm practically one myself. The Intolerant Woke are a different group - the ones who have a self-image as progressive and tolerant but really are just the same as any mob that thinks they are on the side of the angels but will follow the devil straight to hell as long as he gives them a sense of righteous grievance and an enemy to bay at)

Oh and Imagine dragons - Thunder

Sorry, wrong thread

The ads actual target is the Intolerant Woke, who get to feel good feelings about the Scottish government and maybe be more likely to consider visiting, settling or investing there.

Yep. It's masturbatory self-congratulatory wokeness.

Great point.

The ads actual target is the Intolerant Woke, who get to feel good feelings about the Scottish government and maybe be more likely to consider visiting, settling or investing there.

Yes, you're right. I can't imagine anyone is actually going to think, "Hmmm, you know what, you're right, time to be a little bit less racist". It's just empty virtue signalling.

I've been thinking more about this, and the more I think about it, the more I don't like it.

The role of government is to govern all of its citizens, responsibly, equally, and within the law. Governments can't pick and choose who gets to be part of society, and who doesn't. This includes bigots and racists, and transphobes (real or imagined). Governments can't just "cancel" individuals or groups that they don't like very much.

Apparently they can do pretty much what they want.

ViciousJaw, you seem overly invested in my health. I know you're trying to seem 'witty', but honestly, its a little disconcerting. The ad is addressed to the person viewing it (me in this instance) and it's addressing the viewer as Dear Hater. It's thoroughly unpleasant in tone.