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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dear Haters

263 replies

Buttonitboris · 03/11/2020 21:48

Is it just me or are other Mumsnetters being bombarded with ads, on this site, from the Scottish Government entitled 'Dear Haters' followed by we won't stand for transphobia, race hate crimes etc. I am unreasonable in finding it deeply offensive to be addressed as Dear Hater and do Mumsnet HQ feel it appropriate that users are addressed in this way?

Are these ads appearing elsewhere or is this an attempt by the Scottish Government to shut down debate on this site regarding trans/women's rights?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 12:47

There's a bit of difference between objecting to the word woman being redefined and abusing people solely for being themselves. Which always gets reported and deleted here... we, most FWR posters, GC women, don't like it, we report it, MNHQ don't allow it, they delete it.

So tell me again why women who object to the insinuation are haters, racists or whatever? Or is it, as I have already said, you are using the very objection as your proof for accusation?

ArranBound · 04/11/2020 12:48

For anyone minimising or laughing st this, please don't. This proposed law here in Scotland has me very worried. Is Humza wanting people to turn others in for having a different opinion?

GCAcademic · 04/11/2020 12:49

OK, can see where you're coming from there - can you not see though that how is it OK to target trans people online? (Eg, today's US election, first transgender person won in one of the states) some of the comments towards her were disgusting.)
There's a bit of difference between objecting to the word woman being redefined and abusing people solely for being themselves.

Actually, no. According to many TRAs the most heinous examples of transphobia are not people hurling abuse at trans people on Twitter, or physically attacking them, but women wanting to define their own sex class and retain their existing rights. Both kinds of things are apparently literal acts of violence, but gender critical feminism requires particularly vigilant action in order to be stamped out.

MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 12:52

That's certainly what it looks like, ArranBound.

nosswith · 04/11/2020 12:54

I am not receiving any, but agree that 'dear hater' is inappropriate. Especially when you are seeking respect and acceptance.

MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 12:55

So tell me again why women who object to the insinuation are haters, racists or whatever? Or is it, as I have already said, you are using the very objection as your proof for accusation?

It's like Kafka. If you object to something, you admit your guilt.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 12:57

@ArranBound

For anyone minimising or laughing st this, please don't. This proposed law here in Scotland has me very worried. Is Humza wanting people to turn others in for having a different opinion?
That's how it read/sounded!

If you listen to what he said, his zeal, wide ranging approach, it feels as though he has invented a new set of blasphemy laws and is sneaking them into legsilation in plain sight!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 12:58

Exactly Maud Glad someone recognised my reference Smile

Greektome · 04/11/2020 12:59

There are posters on here who are either extremely naive and have been hiding under a stone for years or are disingenuous.
Do they really think that the (in this case Scottish) government is always right? So that if they say that someone is a transphobe then that's what they are?

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 12:59

@CuriousaboutSamphire

There's a bit of difference between objecting to the word woman being redefined and abusing people solely for being themselves. Which always gets reported and deleted here... we, most FWR posters, GC women, don't like it, we report it, MNHQ don't allow it, they delete it.

So tell me again why women who object to the insinuation are haters, racists or whatever? Or is it, as I have already said, you are using the very objection as your proof for accusation?

The advert is an advert not only aimed at MN, but everywhere, so not sure why you're saying MN deletes. Yes, they usually do but MN isn't the whole internet, is it
PostItJoyWeek · 04/11/2020 13:07

So that's why people don't get to choose what is and isn't hateful for themselves

No. That is the very antithesis of free speech. So long as you are not directly inciting violence or lying about facts, you should be free to say shit that other people find hateful, mean, disgusting and generally offensive.

Comedians can make bad taste offensive jokes.
Cartoonists can offend.
Racist politicians can tell you what they really think.

That is how free speech works. Scottish politicians should not be policing speech and ideas. They should police incitement to violence, slander and libel. It is a dangerous world when politicians get to decide which ideas are hateful.

No matter how good the original intentions, blocking free speech never ends well. It always ends up empowering despots. It inevitably ends up being used to hide the dark underbelly. Nasty things grow more dangerous and poisonous when you keep them in the dark places away from sunlight.

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 13:10

Agree with the nasty things grow more poisonous if kept underground, it's a hard one because on the other hand if they're kept underground, not given a platform, they're only really all shouting hate at each other and not radicalising / inciting hatred out in the open

ClaireP20 · 04/11/2020 13:11

@SpeccyLime

If you aren’t transphobic / sexist / racist / ableist etc then it’s not aimed at you, is it?
Oh yes of course, I forgot that I am labelled transphobic for thinking men who state their gender as female without having their bits removed or any hormonal therapy should stay out of women's spaces. Still lost on what an ableist is though..?
MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 13:11

The ad is targeted at mn users because mn as a site has been characterised as transphobic. All mn users are therefore being found guilty by association, and are in need of 're-educating' to accept their loss of rights and language quietly and meekly, or else they will be ostracised by ... the Scottish government.

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 13:11

Think ableist refers to discriminating/harassment etc towards disabled people

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 13:12

The advert is an advert not only aimed at MN, but everywhere, so not sure why you're saying MN deletes. You said a transwoman had received hateful posts. Whole threads as well as individual comments about specific people, individual transwomen get deleted here.

Yes, they usually do but MN isn't the whole internet, is it This thread started asking about MN being targetted. Stop moving that line...

ClaireP20 · 04/11/2020 13:12

@letsghostdance

You sound paranoid and also have a complete lack of understanding of what the advert is actually trying to say.
And you sound passive aggressive..
ArabellaScott · 04/11/2020 13:13

It's an utterly awful, dystopian campaign. A government lecturing its citizens like this is hectoring, aggressive, patronising And insulting. I'm afraid that increasingly this seems to be the tone the SG is aiming for. Bullying and manipulating anyone who doesn't buy their social engineering.

I'm hoping the legislation will fail like the named person scheme and the sectarian one did, they really are absolutely awful at law making. Don't seem to understand the first principles of democracy.

For what it's worth the hate crime bill was opposed by a long list of respected organisations including religious, legal, police and feminist ones.

ClaireP20 · 04/11/2020 13:14

@MaudTheInvincible

The ad is targeted at mn users because mn as a site has been characterised as transphobic. All mn users are therefore being found guilty by association, and are in need of 're-educating' to accept their loss of rights and language quietly and meekly, or else they will be ostracised by ... the Scottish government.
You are absolutely right. We must know our place and not protect our hard won rights from men...
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 13:15

@Quaagars

Agree with the nasty things grow more poisonous if kept underground, it's a hard one because on the other hand if they're kept underground, not given a platform, they're only really all shouting hate at each other and not radicalising / inciting hatred out in the open
So... what is it that is nasty, poisonous here. Where is the radicalisation, incitement on the platform?

Why is MN targetted for this particular campaign?

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 13:16

@CuriousaboutSamphire

The advert is an advert not only aimed at MN, but everywhere, so not sure why you're saying MN deletes. You said a transwoman had received hateful posts. Whole threads as well as individual comments about specific people, individual transwomen get deleted here.

Yes, they usually do but MN isn't the whole internet, is it This thread started asking about MN being targetted. Stop moving that line...

Nowhere did I say on here, I was talking about comments I'd seen online today if you read my comment again. As I flicked on Twitter and looked at trending topics, funnily enough lots of trending topics were about the US election and a trans woman had been elected and some of the comments were awful, I was just saying should they be left unchecked then, and it's not just a case of "objecting to the word woman being redefined" - there's clearly a lot more to it than that for some (not all)
littlbrowndog · 04/11/2020 13:18

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4067441-Clare-Foges-Article-on-Hate-Crime-Law-in-Scotland

There is a sharetoken on this thread to a very good article on hate crime in Scotland

MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 13:18

@Quaagars

Agree with the nasty things grow more poisonous if kept underground, it's a hard one because on the other hand if they're kept underground, not given a platform, they're only really all shouting hate at each other and not radicalising / inciting hatred out in the open

It's best all swept under the carpet, then? Pretend it's not there? Stick your head in the sand like an ostrich and it'll all just go away? Pfft

ClaireP20 · 04/11/2020 13:19

@YouKidsIsCrazy

If you aren’t transphobic / sexist / racist / ableist etc then it’s not aimed at you, is it?

It IS aimed at us, because we are called transphobic when we are not. It's an attempt to shut us up.
Not fucking working though!

Absolutely - if people genuinely cannot understand that this is an attempt to 'silence' women, they are naive. There is a real agenda behind this, and it is not to create a cohesive society. There is a difference actually between transwomen and tranwomen activists. It might be beneficial to do some research and you will see what I mean. Although apparently WOLF (women's organisation) has been labelled a hate group purely for stating they have issues with people self gendering.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 13:22

This thread Quaggars this thread.

If you could stop moving that line for a few minutes and actually enage with ALL that posters are posting instead of cherry picking words and giving them a mangle!

Remember you were the one who said There's a line people refuse or can't see on here - without any apparent irony!