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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dear Haters

263 replies

Buttonitboris · 03/11/2020 21:48

Is it just me or are other Mumsnetters being bombarded with ads, on this site, from the Scottish Government entitled 'Dear Haters' followed by we won't stand for transphobia, race hate crimes etc. I am unreasonable in finding it deeply offensive to be addressed as Dear Hater and do Mumsnet HQ feel it appropriate that users are addressed in this way?

Are these ads appearing elsewhere or is this an attempt by the Scottish Government to shut down debate on this site regarding trans/women's rights?

OP posts:
Cocothefirst · 04/11/2020 10:42

Stating biological fact - or even acknowledging it - is 'transphobic' in some quarters

So because some extremists say something, that automatically makes it true? It reads as "can't say owt nowadays" - one of those from the 70s that just wants to be able to left alone to carry on harassing.

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that biological fact is untrue? Who is the extremist in this scenario? Who's harrassing who?

Raceless · 04/11/2020 10:42

[quote NekoShiro]@MichelleofzeResistance

I'm talking more about the concept of marketing, not the content of the advert. The whole point of an ad is that you get the most 'engagement' for your money, let's say they bought 100 advert spaces for £100 and 100 people saw it and just scrolled past, it cost £1 per person to force them to see the and nothing comes from it, but if 50 of those people see it, get mad, go onto forums and social media to complain about it and each of those 50 people use word of mouth advertising to 100 people each, then 5,050 people have seen or atleast become aware of the ad now and the cost is 2p per person for marketing.[/quote]
Spot on! Free advert.

missmoz · 04/11/2020 10:45

Surely 'hater' is just a summing up of anyone who commits a 'hate crime', misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, transphobic...

If it doesn't apply to you then ignore it.

Lot's of people more concerned with being called a hater than considering why their actions perpetuate hate.

blindinglyobviouslight · 04/11/2020 10:46

@MichelleofzeResistance

No one is addressing you (personally) as a hater unless you are one. If the shoe fits and all that

And there. That's it. That's exactly what it's successfully manipulated you into doing.

You're saying right there, as it prompts you to do, "are you in our gang? Because if not, shame on you."

That's exactly what's wrong with it. And that's apart from the stupid language like some embarrassing down wiv the kidz attempt.

All of this. Michelle has absolutely nailed it.

It has the deliberate intention of stifling debate and thought and criticism of social policy as you will be shamed by name-calling.

A disgraceful way for a Government to behave.

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella · 04/11/2020 10:47

@flaviaritt

Not me, but I don’t think that is an appropriate way for a government body to address voters. At all. I’m glad I’m not Scottish.
I agree. There's is, ironically, something hateful in the question. It's so... black and white (no pun intended) - either you subscribe to particular views, or you're a "hater". I'm half Scottish myself but would hate to live there.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:48

@Quaagars

I think it's overegging it to take this so personally. No one is addressing you (personally) as a hater unless you are one. If the shoe fits and all that. If you're not, scroll along

Exactly - I mean I did do a bit of an eye roll at the use of the word hater but that's it - if you're feeling a bit "got at" or that they're personally attacking you, maybe try asking yourself why.

Yeah! Cos we are all nasty aren't we? Don't obejct to The Bollox Wimmxn, that's how you identify yourselves!

This is a national government's campaign! It reaches outwith their jurisdiction and is targetted, on their instructions, to reach specific cohorts. They define those cohorts and one of them seems to be MN!

And as for such shite being policed... well, we are seeing it happen in real life right now aren't we? All it takes is someone to report you for something you may have said or thought, something they interpret as they choose and decide you are a hatefilled witch. We are seeing court cases about this right now... also as discussed on many threads, some of which you have contributed to Quaggers

GCAcademic · 04/11/2020 10:49

@missmoz

Surely 'hater' is just a summing up of anyone who commits a 'hate crime', misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, transphobic...

If it doesn't apply to you then ignore it.

Lot's of people more concerned with being called a hater than considering why their actions perpetuate hate.

The problem is that people don't get to decide whether it applies to them. The advert exists within the context of the Scottish Government proposing a law which will enable them to decide whether it applies to you and to criminalise mainstream, scientifically-verifiable views about the reality of biological sex.
flaviaritt · 04/11/2020 10:50

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella

Exactly. It’s similar to the labelling of ‘fifth columnists’ or ‘Reds’ last century. Authoritarian nonsense. No government has the right to outlaw opinions.

MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 10:51

@missmoz

Surely 'hater' is just a summing up of anyone who commits a 'hate crime', misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, transphobic...

If it doesn't apply to you then ignore it.

Lot's of people more concerned with being called a hater than considering why their actions perpetuate hate.

The advert perpetuates hate, though. That's the point many people are making,

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:51

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that biological fact is untrue? Who is the extremist in this scenario? Who's harrassing who?

No, biological fact isn't untrue, you cannot biologically change sex, that's fact - just because someone with more extreme views says it is so, doesn't make it automatically true.
As for harassment I meant the person wanting to just say what the hell they like to a trans person/harrass them because 'can't say owt nowadays"
There's a line people refuse or can't see on here

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:52

just because someone with more extreme views says it is so
argh should read transphobic at the end of that

flaviaritt · 04/11/2020 10:52

If it doesn't apply to you then ignore it.

If the government doesn’t have law to back up it’s definition, it shouldn’t be saying it. If they do, I can’t ignore it. (Well, I can, but I’m not Scottish.)

I should also say that this authoritarianism spewing into the Left is the only reason I would ever support a Conservative government.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:52

@missmoz

Surely 'hater' is just a summing up of anyone who commits a 'hate crime', misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, transphobic...

If it doesn't apply to you then ignore it.

Lot's of people more concerned with being called a hater than considering why their actions perpetuate hate.

Think about how it is finding it's way to people's feed... what did we look at to become targetted for ths advert?

Why is the Scottish government reaching out to rural England, in my case?

How did it find me? I don't do much beyond local facebook, work and Mumsnet. So what did I do to get targetted?

I have done fuck all to perpetuate hate.. that you suggest that, based on my having received this advert, my reaction to it, is precisely what is supposed to happen. It's how women like me, who don't swallow the particular ideology behind the campaign, get ostracised, separated out and, well, hated Smile

Take the ring from your nose, don't allow yourself to be led by this!

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:53

The advert perpetuates hate, though. That's the point many people are making

So what are you saying, that we shouldn't call out hate because that just creates more hate?
We should all just stay quiet instead and turn a blind eye, or what?

Cocothefirst · 04/11/2020 10:54

Quaagars I have never harrassed a trans person. Ever. Your assumption is very unpleasant.

Wanting single sex spaces and sex-based protections retained doesn't make me or anyone else a 'hater'.

KiriAndLou · 04/11/2020 10:54

I wouldn't start thinking "why do I keep getting this dear dad ads on my page, why am I being addressed as a dad". A bit naive, isn't it?

I'd definitely start wondering why my ad preferences thought I was a dad.

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:56

Why is the Scottish government reaching out to rural England, in my case?

This site is international, I'd have thought it was sending out ads to everyone, not necessarily Scottish people.
I mean, I don't just get ads based in England and nowhere else! Confused

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:56

@Quaagars

I'm a bit confused - are you saying that biological fact is untrue? Who is the extremist in this scenario? Who's harrassing who?

No, biological fact isn't untrue, you cannot biologically change sex, that's fact - just because someone with more extreme views says it is so, doesn't make it automatically true.
As for harassment I meant the person wanting to just say what the hell they like to a trans person/harrass them because 'can't say owt nowadays"
There's a line people refuse or can't see on here

Mainly because that line you are keen on drawing, wiggles, blurs and runs away when you try to get a good look at it!

Your assertion that A N Other poster wishes to say what the hell they like to a trans person/harrass them is

  1. A ridiculous slur
  2. A ridiculous interpretation of what was said.

You are moving that line around, jiggling it like crazy!

Quaagars · 04/11/2020 10:57

Quaagars I have never harrassed a trans person. Ever. Your assumption is very unpleasant

I never said you had! If you never have, then I wasn't referring to you, was I?!

littlbrowndog · 04/11/2020 10:57

The ad campaign doesn’t mention misogyny at all

Noideawottodo · 04/11/2020 10:58

@Quaagars

Why is the Scottish government reaching out to rural England, in my case?

This site is international, I'd have thought it was sending out ads to everyone, not necessarily Scottish people.
I mean, I don't just get ads based in England and nowhere else! Confused

You should be! Unless the people paying for ads are clueless. You can set location, age and keywords to target people. Untargetted ads are a waste of money.

The Scottish government have targwtted MN users and set the location to include at least England.

MaudTheInvincible · 04/11/2020 10:58

No. I'm saying that flinging insults around is not particularly engaging or persuasive. It is likely to further entrench people in their views. The government has a responsibility to foster good relationships and this tactic does not do that. Hence Brexit, Trump, etc.

PickAChew · 04/11/2020 10:59

I'm just getting ads for bookcases including ones that look like they'd collapse if you put more than 3 books on them. I did spend an hour, yesterday, browsing bookcases, which would explain it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2020 10:59

@Quaagars

Why is the Scottish government reaching out to rural England, in my case?

This site is international, I'd have thought it was sending out ads to everyone, not necessarily Scottish people.
I mean, I don't just get ads based in England and nowhere else! Confused

And moving that line round again.

Think it though.

Government
Algorithym
Propaganda

They get to make their target as precise as they like. The choose where to target.

Why Mumsnet? Because, whether you choose to believe me or not, I don't go anywhere else to discuss womens rights!

littlbrowndog · 04/11/2020 11:01

I live in Scotland and was most disturbed to see our justice minister saying that what we say in our homes could be reported as a hate crime.

The state now telling us what we can or cannot say in our homes