That's a first. Accused of transphobia. WIBU? Screenshots.

[DelvingintoInsanity]

A group on facebook that I'm in.

Have never been accused of transphobia before and like to think I'm a tolerant and inclusive person. Quite socked and wondering if I am in the wrong here?

Clearly, I'm now close from being banned from the group. Just for context, it's a writing group.

@Perfect28

I'm not ignorant the debates I just don't understand why so many people feel so offended by the lives of others. Are they hurting you? No. So move along.

You are ignorant in this instance or you wouldn't be saying that. Take the advice to read some of the threads and learn what the issues are.

Are you actually going to contribute anything besides dismissing facts as bigotry or "no big deal" and stupid emojis?

I dont believe you cant figure out whats wrong abkut makmg wonens spaces the dumping ground for males who may not be safe around other males. If uts males causing the problem then all you do is bring that problem.to the womens.

Seems to me you think if males cant be safe around other males then females shouldn't be safe from.males either . As opposed to males meed to sort out their problem.with violence?

Are women people to you or support humans for males ?

The Transphobic claim often thrown at people is just a way of shutting people up. Just ignore it.

You will also find flat earthers who will call you names for saying we live on a globe and so on.

We had an age of education and improving knowledge, but we seem to be slipping back into ignorance and superstition again.

Facts trump fantasy in the real world and that's the one we must all live in and deal with. Biology is real.

Yes, it's just silly. It's like when people say "I don't have a problem and I don't understand why other people do so there can't possibly be a conflict of rights, it doesn't exist". The very act of my saying that I have a problem, means that there is, to a greater or lesser extent, a conflict of rights

@Perfect28

Oh look you're all still at it. False dichotomising and spinning yourselves into circles. God forbid that the world actually change. Thankfully there aren't too many younger feminists who believe as you do so this view will soon perish. Is that what you're really afraid of?

Unfortunately for you, this is MN where the grown ups are expected to actually back up their arguments with evidence and counter points.

Not just drop in a big word and hoping for the best.

So with that in mind...

What is a woman? What is a transwoman?

To be honest I don't think it's worth trying to engage with Perfect. People took the time to post detailed and accurate stats on how sexual assault was overwhelmingly perpetrated by men, and that among male prisoners, sex offending was even more prevalent in percentage terms among trans-identifying male prisoners than among the male prison population as a whole. People took the time to explain about the judicial review currently being brought by a woman prisoner who was raped while incarcerated with a male prisoner (this being the UK, rape is legally defined as penetration by a penis).

Perfect's response to this was to post a series of "crying with laughter" emojis.

I was accused of being a transphobe on twitter recently, all because I said some benign thing about JK Rowling! What a bunch of nutters! You'll find most of these weirdos are men, funny enough. Men who are just plain nutjobs and hate women, and men who have transitioned to women. X

I try to avoid this topic as it's annoyed me in the past and find I'm better for it. It's depressing how ridiculous some people can be. What's more, is that the average person who doesn't pay attention to this likely thinks like you that they will be polite and refer to people as they wish but are unaware they're still "transphobic" because they're supposed to disavow the meaning of sex and believe things that are not true.

I'm also on a few writing groups where topics like this come up and I just try to block such issues like this as I know I'll end up making a comment and then having morons telling me sex isn't real. I recently tried to watch a video for a writing event starting soon and of course, it started with everyone going around announcing their pronouns, "My pronouns are she (pause), her (pause) and hers." It's so silly and just performative nonsense.

I agree, Cara.

@PlanDeRaccordement

It’s a religion. You can’t argue with faith based beliefs that have no grounding in biological fact. That’s why they ban people so often, they really need that echo chamber to bolster their beliefs.

Absolutely. Don't let it bother you anymore OP. You will NEVER get through to him with common sense. He is a nutter. Disengage.

Speak for your self Perfect28, I live with 4 'younger' feminists who absolutely disagree with you, but I guess that's because 2 of them have experienced first hand the demands from transwomen that they should allow 'women with dicks' to penetrate their cotton ceiling and they are transphobic for not finding this a palatbale offer.

Thankfully there aren't too many younger feminists who believe as you do so this view will soon perish

Wouldn't be so sure. I'm young, as are my friends. I spoke with them about this today and we all think this is as ridiculous as the older generation.

Seems a bit odd to suggest a certain way of thinking will simply perish when it's one generation who will be raising the next in the first place.

I find that whilst some of my views are different to those of my parents, in general, our thoughts and views on certain subjects remain quite closely linked because they brought me up. Providing they aren't seriously negative i.e. racist, I think a lot of people will share similar view points to those of the people they learnt from. I don't see why the views expressed on this thread are transphobic. They are simply concerned about women's rights and equality, which we've fought so hard for (and still are), being completely side swept in favour of another group of people.

I support a person's right to live how they want to live within reason, what I don't support is that meaning that another oppressed group of people have to give up their long fought for (and often inadequate) rights in order to accommodate someone else.

Its rarelt about fairness or equality imo. It's shouting the loudest until you get what you want at the detriment of others and gas lighting them into believing they are wrong for wanting to protect what is theirs.

And you may not care about what someone calls women, but I do. I am not a menstruator or a chest feeder or any other silly way of describing a biological female.

I am a woman, I want to proudly own that title. We're already conditioned by society into thinking we're less than simply because we are women. No, you're not taking that title from us. I am a proud WOMAN, not a cervix haver, birthing person, period haver and so on.

No one is asking men to call themselves prostate havers or ejaculators. It's yet another example of women being asked to do the 'nice thing' and give up what is theirs for the good of someone else. NO.

I don't care how you dress or whether you call yourself a he or a she but you do not get to tell me that I am no longer a woman and am instead just 'a person with a cervix'.

It's complete misogyny and whether someone is young or older, if you own half a brain cell you'd see it.

Oh look you're all still at it. False dichotomising and spinning yourselves into circles.

Come on, now. This is just trolling. I took the time to share something that is deeply personal and traumatic. There are very few people who are going to look at your response to my post and be on your side in this debate. But carry on, please.

I also know a large number of younger people who couldn't be rolling their eyes harder at all the cries of transphobia. And I also know lots of woke young people who are going to have a big shock in a decade's time when they experience sexism for the first time in their lives - as often happens when women start having children. They won't think the way they do now forever.

@Perfect28

Oh look you're all still at it. False dichotomising and spinning yourselves into circles. God forbid that the world actually change. Thankfully there aren't too many younger feminists who believe as you do so this view will soon perish. Is that what you're really afraid of?

@Perfect28 oh here you go again with some inane and empty sentiment without actually addressing any valid point previous posters have made or any questions directed at you.

FYI, I actually used to be fully on board the TRA train, young women grow up. Especially when they start realising what allowing men to appropriate the term 'woman' actually means for the disintegration of womens rights. Especially when those rights and equality were barely there to start with.

In 10, 20 years time when people will be taking gender ID and using it as an excuse for other self ID (such as more white people identifying as black as an example), will you still think it's a positive movement to appropriate the lives and culture of those you never belonged to?

At 47 I may not be an expert on much, but one thing I do know is that when Perfect is my age they are going to look back and cringe at how confidently their younger self assumed they had all the answers and how little they actually knew.

@CaraDuneRedux

To be honest I don't think it's worth trying to engage with Perfect. People took the time to post detailed and accurate stats on how sexual assault was overwhelmingly perpetrated by men, and that among male prisoners, sex offending was even more prevalent in percentage terms among trans-identifying male prisoners than among the male prison population as a whole. People took the time to explain about the judicial review currently being brought by a woman prisoner who was raped while incarcerated with a male prisoner (this being the UK, rape is legally defined as penetration by a penis).

Perfect's response to this was to post a series of "crying with laughter" emojis.

Completely and utterly agree

I was pleasantly surprised over the last few months when DS (6th former) reconnected with loads of his old school pals and started having zoom chats and playing group online games.

There were some (its all boys groups) who I suspected would have done the whole ‘they/call
me she/her’ route but none of them have. DS has told me that it’s generally viewed as silly attention seeking and for bullying reasons.

He also understands the fairness of it with regards to women’s rights.

@Perfect28

Oh look you're all still at it. False dichotomising and spinning yourselves into circles. God forbid that the world actually change. Thankfully there aren't too many younger feminists who believe as you do so this view will soon perish. Is that what you're really afraid of?

Do you honestly believe that this strict reinforcement of gender stereotypes that say men who are deemed feminine are actually non-men women (y'know, run/jump/cry/think/dress like a girl etc.) is a world-changing view? Seriously?

Now I think I need the crying with laughter emoji.

@Perfect28

By engage do you mean agree? 😂 Look, it's simple. I'm not trans, nobody close to me is trans, and I'm not an expert. I assume the same is true for most if not all of you? Perhaps it's not smart or sensible to hold such strong opinions on something you're not qualified to talk about. 🙂

So what makes you qualified to talk about it then? I have a trans person in my family and have seen first hand the utter shit show that has been their ‘support’ by the clinics they attend and I’m now watching their mental health fall through the floor. I’m seeing them beg for money to have perfectly healthy parts of their body removed. I also have the advantage of knowing that when I was their age I was a complete twat who thought I knew everything and wouldn’t ever listen to what anyone told me about sensible life choices. Thankfully the stupid things I did at their age didn’t involve irreversible surgery.

"as always I find myself thinking "in an increasingly pornified, barbie-fied world where men literally get away with murder by claiming sex game gone wrong, and rape is effectively decriminalised, why is no one making the obvious connection as to why young women might want to identify out of womanhood?"

Thank you previous poster for articulating this so well.

Also agree Cara. Although I'd like to remind Perfect that many older feminists are still busy fighting injustices that still and will continue to affect the lives of women and girls all over to world. Every day.

I'm not afraid of that. In fact I think Old feminists (many of whom are on this thread) are fucking awesome and we owe them a debt.

Once that's done and dusted maybe we can get on with tending to the feelz of men who believe they're women.

Unless of course Perfect has anything of substance to add? Slagging us off playground style doesn't count.

Thankfully there aren't too many younger feminists who believe as you do so this view will soon perish

It's easy to brainwash naive, idealistic young people with little life experience.
They don't stay naive, idealistic young people with no experience though.

I've changed and developed my views on many controversial subjects since I was a young person, most people do. In fact they're often embarassed at their youthful ignorance and simplistic thinking.

Noone is asking or expecting women to give up their rights, that's just the perception, and exactly what I mean by false dichotomy. 😁 What I find funny is how outraged you all are that someone has an opposing view.

Classic, you're young and naive. I love it. Often said by old tories 😉