AIBU to feel "feminist guilt" for being traditionally feminine?

[feministfemme]

I've NCed as this might be a bit of a sensitive subject, I'm not sure. (could be moved to Feminism board I suppose, but AIBU gets more traction).

I was just wondering if anyone else feels feminist guilt for being traditionally feminine - for example I wear makeup, I have long(ish) hair, I like to bake, my family are my priority, I'd like to be a SAHM etc etc .

Though obviously feminism is about giving women a choice, can't help but feeling like I've picked the wrong ones sometimes!

And that's all fine by me. Because the 50 % of the global population who are in all sorts of shit around the world need all the help they (we) can get.

And I'd be the first person to get my face in the front of a fist when anyone a bit different is getting in grief for whatever reason

Or even a bit the same... TBH. Little sense of self preservation. I'm only 5'2

Have a good sleep/ evening :)

Jesus just be who you want. I look very feminine. Long hair, small face, wear makeup, love clothing, make an effort, often dress quite girly (Especially in summer). But looks are deceiving because I'm not remotely feminine inside. Just be who you want and don't be a twat about it.

Let other women be who they want and don't judge them for being feminists. One day you'll realise that power and money can serve you very well indeed. Helpless is not sexy.

@feministfemme Do you think women can have penises?

[quote Harmarsuperstar]@feministfemme Do you think women can have penises?[/quote]
Yep.

It's a fact that some people are unhappy with their bodies and the most successful treatment for that is surgery to look like the opposite sex.

That is not a fact. Medical transition, surgery and others, helps some people with gender dysphoria/incongruence (which is not being unhappy with one's body), but most people with gender dysphoria do not undergo any type of medical transition. Even by the most generous statistics by GIRES, 4/5ths of dysphoric people cope through other methods (and in the UK, it's far higher).

And @feministfemme, as the academics who creates the whole 'cis' category and Serrano who is largely credit with having popularized it outside of academia were at least one point clear on, cis and trans as categories works well in discussions on the population level, but if you try to apply that binary to everyone at the individual level, you will leave people out. Saying you want to support cis women and trans women leaves many women out. It's a very Western academia ideological way of framing gender and it cannot be universally applied without saying that someone has to fit into that ideology. No one should have to do that, it erases many different ways of looking at and experiencing gender. Someone can have gender dysphoria and not be trans but it'd be pretty terrible to say someone distressed by their sex traits is cis, someone can not have gender dysphoria but feel the entire concept of 'being on the same side'/cis or 'across'/trans from a social role is ridiculous, someone can have absolutely no idea what this theortical language even means and while they'll likely be lumped in as cis on a population level, enforcing that as an identity on someone has a lot of ethical and moral issues.

Okay ** I collectively want to support all people. I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that statement is problematic too, but I want to help everybody as much as I can. That's all I can really say.

I'm puzzled as to why you didn't start your thread about becoming informed about feminism on the Feminism board OP. I'm sure you would be up to the discussions on there - you seem to be pretty au fait with some of the issues. However, please don't refer to cisgender women though, we are not a subset of women and nor do we have penises.

we need to support cisgender women

No such thing as 'cisgender women'. There are women. And there are men. It's as simple as that.

I collectively want to support all people.
I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that statement is problematic too, but I want to help everybody as much as I can. That's all I can really say.
Nothing wrong with wanting to help people. Most feminists have no issues with that.

Lots wrong if instead of helping everyone your idea of feminism is prioritising men and telling other women to be nice and have their rights eroded. That by definition is not helping everyone.

Only you know where your views lie on that.

@Coatandhat

I guess I'd like to work up to the Feminism board as it's sometimes difficult to express personal opinion on a platform where a good majority of people majorly disagree with that opinion, to an active level. So I will probably involve myself more in the Feminism board when I can nail down and settle on a philosophy of Feminism that I can stand behind fully. I refer to cisgender women as "cisgender women" as we were having a conversation about transgender women, and I didn't want to have any confusion over the definition of "women". Though I know there are differing beliefs on what makes a woman on this site.

I am a SAHM. I like men to open doors for me etc. It's a personal choice. Everyone is different

@IcedPurple Thank you for your post, but I disagree with you.

@LolaSmiles I don't prioritise men I don't think. I think there are intersecting issues that involve men, but I don't think these are more important than issues that affect women.

@Feellikedancingyeah Good for you! I'm similar x

If someone has a family, they should always be top priority imo - I don't understand why that's in a list of things to feel guilty about.

I don't think it is necessary to have a whole, fully-formed, made-to -measure feminist philosophy to have feminist views. That is making it sound like it's all or nothing. It is something that changes with your experiences in life.

@feministfemme

Okay ** I collectively want to support all people. I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that statement is problematic too, but I want to help everybody as much as I can. That's all I can really say.

"Supporting all people" sounds cute, but it's about on the level of "I'd like to teach the world to sing" in terms of what it actually means.

Feminism isn't about 'supporting all people'. It's about prioritising the needs of women and girls. That means actual women and girls, not those who 'believe' they are women and girls.

@firstimemamma
I guess because lots of people's top priorities aren't family - sometimes it's work or money, for example (even if they have families). Which I don't think is necessarily right. I guess I feel guilty because for me, it personally means I might need to sacrifice career success in order to fulfil all of the family goals I would like to achieve, which is a more "traditional" way of life for women.

I don't prioritise men I don't think. I think there are intersecting issues that involve men, but I don't think these are more important than issues that affect women
In which case you shouldn't have any issues if you're were to be debating on the Feminist boards. There's lots of robust debate and it's possible to disagree on threads. Not all disagreement is bad, though some seem to think it is.

The main way you'd be likely to hav issues is if your response to women discussing issues affecting women is to 'be nice' or you are adding a prefix to the word women to refer to half the human population who are biologically female.

@IcedPurple I believe transgender women are women and should be included in the discussion of women's rights. You are entitled to hold an entirely different opinion, but I don't think either of us are going to change our viewpoints on this particular issue.

@Coatandhat I guess I don't think it's necessary for everyone but I would like to know where I stand in some aspects and work out a few half-baked ideas first, personally.

I don't feel guilty putting my kids above having a career - surely feminism is about equal choices and opportunity not equal outcomes l. As I'm the only one who could feed my children the way nature intended them it made sense for me to be at home

Here is my take on it, fwiw.

For years I resisted the label of feminist, even rejected it, because the loudest feminist voices I knew said a lot of things that did not chime with me. And then one day I realised, I am a feminist. I do not need other people to agree that I am one. I do not need to agree with anything other than equality between the sexes to be one. I am as much a feminist as gender critical people, I am as much a feminist as people who think changing your name at marriage is a betrayal, I am as much a feminist as someone who thinks body hair should be left natural as a political act, I am as much a feminist as someone who thins marriage should be done away with, I am a feminist regardless.

I am no longer interested in whether other people think I am a feminist, I do not have to satisfy their understanding of what feminism is and whatever label they apply to me is relevant only to them. My appearance, my sexuality, my beliefs are mine and mine alone to control and I don't need anyone to approve any of them for them to be valid.

@LolaSmiles My opinion is that the term "woman" is an umbrella term to support both biological women and transgender women. I use "ciswomen" in arguments relating to transgender issues to avoid confusion. However if this is a point of conflict then I could use the term "biological woman" if that's preferable.

@unmarkedbythat I agree with you. I probably just need to work on my own sense of self / avoiding the need for approval. Thank you for posting.

@feministfemme I believe transgender women are women and should be included in the discussion of women's rights.

I don’t think you’re allowed to have that view on MN...

@RunningFromInsanity
That's probably true. I'm happy to listen to people's opinions who disagree and take into account why they think that way, but I think it's a core belief of mine.