AIBU to feel "feminist guilt" for being traditionally feminine?

[feministfemme]

I've NCed as this might be a bit of a sensitive subject, I'm not sure. (could be moved to Feminism board I suppose, but AIBU gets more traction).

I was just wondering if anyone else feels feminist guilt for being traditionally feminine - for example I wear makeup, I have long(ish) hair, I like to bake, my family are my priority, I'd like to be a SAHM etc etc .

Though obviously feminism is about giving women a choice, can't help but feeling like I've picked the wrong ones sometimes!

I don’t think feminism is about choice per se, obviously I believe women should do what they want. But “choice” doesn’t describe it for me as much as the old fashioned idea of “liberation”.

I guess everyone has a different definition and that’s ok.

A housewife without kids is weird, but not because of feminism. It's more like, do something useful with yourself! On the other hand, it's nobody's business but your own. But being a SAHM has always been socially acceptable, I think. Especially when the kids are small.

I'm actually a bit offended at the idea that because I'm I feminist I must be a bit butch. Why?

@ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes

Is it, rather than guilt in what you’re doing, maybe a feeling that you’re not acting on your feminist beliefs enough?

I say that because I feel it. Apart from wittering on to friends and donating to Women’s Aid etc I’m not really an active part of the cause, as it were

Yes! Sorry you've managed to phrase it better in a few sentences than I did with a lot of paragraphs. I feel like because I majorly agree with the ideology that women should be able to work for example, that I kind of need to actively do it to prove I really believe it and that it's possible. Which makes me feel like a bit of a shit feminist because it's not what I personally want for myself.

Though obviously feminism is about giving women a choice, can't help but feeling like I've picked the wrong ones sometimes! blush

You've said it yourself! Feminism is about having and expressing choice. Don't let anyone dictate to you who you should be or how you should feel, male or female.

@feministfemme - unless you have a back up plan that enables you to step up financially should the worst happen, then yes you are.

Like having qualifications that will stay up to date, keeping your hand in by working part time, managing your family's financial investments so that they continue to give an income etc.

Yes, being the SAHP you are contributing to 'the family unit' - but what if the financial contributor is unable to continue to do so? What will happen then? What will happen to the lovely lifestyle your children have?

@qiry I'm not suggesting that at all! Raah I wish I was a bit more literate within this topic. I'm not at all suggesting that feminists are butch / masculine, I think it's the wrong idea completely. I've written out several paragraphs but I'm not sure how to put it. I hope someone can phrase it better than me!

@ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes Could you please explain the difference between choice and liberation in the context of feminism? I'm very interested.

Ah I see! If I may diagnose you I think you’re confusing the individual level and the level of society.

The problem is society, eg I wear make up. It’s technically my choice because no one physically forces me. However ideally I’d live in a society where there was no pressure to look any different than how I do straight out of the shower (well maybe clothed)

I hate the pressure on women regarding looks, domestic standards etc but I’d never judge an individual woman on her choices made in this, if I may, f’d up society. Up to and including plastic surgery or something like that

I've got qualifications (and am currently in the process of getting more, as well as planning out the next one I'd like to do). I'm a relatively educated person, but I have a preference for being a SAHP.
However it is just a preference - if I have to work, I will but I'd rather not if I don't have to. I don't see raising children as avoiding adulthood.

@ClaryFairchild

Love the idea I’m enough of an expert to explain the different branches of feminism I hope the general thrust of how I see it is explained above

OP, the clue is in the name. FEMINism.

Being feminine isn't the brassy outlier you might imagine.

@ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes

Ah I see! If I may diagnose you I think you’re confusing the individual level and the level of society.

The problem is society, eg I wear make up. It’s technically my choice because no one physically forces me. However ideally I’d live in a society where there was no pressure to look any different than how I do straight out of the shower (well maybe clothed)

I hate the pressure on women regarding looks, domestic standards etc but I’d never judge an individual woman on her choices made in this, if I may, f’d up society. Up to and including plastic surgery or something like that

I think I understand. As in, I sometimes shave because I have a preference for it but I may easily not have a preference for it if we lived in a society where both options were equally socially acceptable.

Sorry if the way I phrase things generally are confusing - this is a topic where for some reason I just can't put the words in the right order. Feel free to diagnose me though

I agree with other PPs on this thread. I was a SAHM until my two DSs started school, then my DH’s health collapsed and he had to retire in his early 40s. There was absolutely no choice. I had to work full-time to keep my family afloat.

So please, OP, keep any job skills that you have up-to-date and plan for all kinds of possible futures!

Being in control of your finances and future is being the adult - how you go about it is your own business.

Don't get me wrong - I have quite traditionally feminist hobbies. I was in your position. But I am one of those that the worst has happened to and I can tell you it is shit trying to manage my finances - but I at least have options. Plan for the worst - it's better to be pleasantly surprised.

Don’t worry.
Feminisim has moved to very choosy-choicy kind of a thing.

Today it’s more about ”I made this choice, so it’s a feminist choice”.

There are a lot of your kind out there!

@PicsInRed

OP, the clue is in the name. FEMINism.

Being feminine isn't the brassy outlier you might imagine.

I mean, I'm not necessarily saying it is. I understand for example working mums can be treated poorly because it's seen as the "less maternal / traditional thing to do" (which is a whole crock of shit). I'm just wondering if anyone else feels as if they're letting the side down by succumbing to traditional ideals, even if the overarching cause of the movement is liberation- I guess because it seems like "staying stagnant" when the more culturally progressive thing is to work (as an example).

Yes that shaving example is exactly it!

@ClaryFairchild I will protect myself and my options so that if anything goes pearshaped I will have opportunities - I guess I just wonder why you think I wouldn't, is all?

@WellThisWentWell Could you explain what you mean by your post? Sorry, might be a bit thick haha.

Leaving aside the financial risk of not earning (though actually that’s huge) there’s loads you could be doing for feminism, you could volunteer somewhere, raise money, bore your MP into submission with endless letters

You don’t have to follow any rulebook.

I think I get you, sometimes if you wear pink etc people assume it's because you're a victim of gender stereotypes rather than just liking the colour pink. Or that if you wear make up and like getting your hair done it's just to please men, rather than it just being something you enjoy doing.

I don't really subscribe to the idea that anything a woman chooses to do is automatically a feminist choice. No choice is made in a vacuum and it isn't a coincidence that it is overwhelmingly one particular half of the population which chooses to spend time and money on make up and beauty treatments, for example, and not the other. It is worth examining why you do those things.
However, other things you list-
Baking: Useful skill, good that you enjoy it.
Family being a priority: Great. I'd imagine it is for most people.
SAHM: The issue here is obviously financial security and your potential, when your children are older, to work again if you ever wanted to. It's in no way ideal to be financially dependent on someone else (though, I suppose it must work out fine for many).

You shouldn't feel guilty, however.

Because @feministfemme sadly so many SAHMs don't. And they end up in their 30s, 40s it 50s with a share of their assets (if there are any - financial ties mean that you could still lose them - I did) - and only the prospect of a minimum income job.

I think a SAHM needs feminism more than anyone else. Feminism should be fighting for not just women’s right to work out of the house, but for “women’s work” (in the house) to be recognised and paid accordingly. Right now, the perils of not working out of the house are well-recognised on MN, but not elsewhere. Women making a choice to stay at home with the kids are doing so in a risky environment, and they often don’t even know that. Feminism should be about fighting to remove that risk, as well as for the more obvious things.

If women (or men) who stayed at home to bring up children were paid for their services, then it would be a true choice.

@ANoTail I guess my thought is, what is a feminist choice? Because if I make a choice to appease men then I'm doing the stereotypical opposite of being a feminist, however if I actively make choices to go against what men want then I'm still letting men be the primary stakeholder in my mind. However, even if I try and not think about men at all making choices then it affects very little, as so much cultural information is ingrained that I can't have my own unbiased personal preferences.

@ImEatingVeryHealthilyOhYes I guess I like the idea of helping the movement without necessarily feeling like I need to be the poster girl for it. I think I have a very complicated relationship with feminism personally, additionally affected by my relationships with other women, so I'm still trying to iron out which parts I agree with and which parts I don't.

@Scaraffito That's how I feel yeah! You get it.

Having your own money is a feminist issue, but I don’t think you’re a “bad feminist” for not having it, just a woman, who may or may not be a feminist, who’s in a risky position.

Fwiw OP you seem to care about women and you’re interested in the subject so that’s a thumbs up from me

I don’t agree that feminism is necessarily about choice. It’s about removing the patriarchal structures that oppress us. You can’t make truly independent choices under patriarchy. I wonder if this is why you are conflicted about your desire to look/be ‘feminine’