My mother hit my child

[LenaBlack]

I have a 4 year old DS. We don't see my parents frequently due to distance. My mother visited recently, last time she has seen us was almost a year ago.

A day before her going back home she engaged with a play with my 4 year old DS where he was behind her on a sofa, at some point he pushed her and in response she pushed/slapped him back.. They engaged in a "game" of slapping .This was all light slapping at this point. My DH was in the same room, I was in the kitchen.
I came in and asked DS to help me in the kitchen ( he likes to "help"). He was giddy and overexcited (from the "game") and I cought my mother saying to him that if he hits her she will do it harder. He run to me and then turned and slapped her on leg..not very hard. He is 4!
It happened very quickly and my mother slapped him across his back in response. HARD. VERY HARD. Hard enough to see that it was hurting and he arched his back sharply, there was a red mark too.
I lost my temper and shouted at her asking what the hell is she doing...She was very angry and said my child assaulted her and nobody has the right to do that. That this will teach him to never do it again..I told her that she shouldn't have engaged in this kind of "play" and that she is an adult and should have told him to stop. She insisted that she did and he hit her....He is freaking 4 years old, really not that strong!!! I told her to tell me or DH if she can't handle him but she said she won't...
Showed absolutely no remorse and said she would do it again.

We don't hit DS, it was a big shock to him. It's days later he keeps saying that "grandma hit me really hard"..
My DH is shocked at what happened and that she absolutely refused to back down/apologise even when I was saying to her it's absolutely unacceptable.

My DS doesn't hit people. This "game" was encouraged by her and got him giddy..

I had a difficult relationship with my mother as a child and she used to hit me and my siblings. I never though she would hit a grandchild..

I can't trust her, can I?

I'm not overreacting in never letting her have him without very close supervision?

My dad smacked my son once. Before he was diagnosed with ASD he had meltdowns and we didn't know what the problem was. DS pushed my mum very hard into a thorny bush and my dad saw red. BUT he came to me straight away and apologised and was very upset that he had done it. In your situation I'd not let her be alone with your son and watch carefully when they are together.

My DM hit my DD when she was three years old. She was never left alone with any of my D.C. again.

@RattleOfBars

I’m not saying she was right. Just that OP should have stepped in before the game got out of hand. And try to see the incident through her mother’s eyes.

First of all, why should OP have stepped in when the DH was in the room?

And secondly, the GM is a grown woman who should moderate her own behaviour.

@RattleOfBars are you reading a different OP to me?

@MimsyPorpington

The thing is, this is not one isolated incident. This is part of a pattern of nasty behaviour which is continuing from your childhood. You probably haven't seen it so much recently because she lives so far away that you rarely see her at all.

She was a bully then and she is a bully now. She is asserting dominance... not just over her grandchild, but over you. Her wishes will always overrule yours, and hitting your child against your will (and then doubling down by refusing to apologise and saying she'd do it again) is just one way of demonstrating that. It's about power.

It's not uncommon for people who grew up with toxic parents to just accept that "that's the way they are"... right up until the time when they see those patterns being repeated with the grandchildren. And at that point you suddenly see how wrong it always was, and how the children need protecting from those people. So that's the trigger for a lot of people to re-evaluate their relationships and go low contact or no contact.

I agree with this post. This is exactly how it happened with me. My mother was aggressive, manipulative and violent towards me as a child, it was always about power not discipline too. She continued to be verbally critical, manipulative and toxic to me as an adult, but I didn't know any different as that's "just how she is/had always been".

When she started on the same type of behaviour (including the irrational power play type 'discipline') with my children, that's when I realised that although I could tolerate it for myself, I was not prepared to let my children suffer in the same way and I went NC.

I haven't seen my mother in 7 years, and I am proud that I managed to break the cycle of abuse and my children will never grow up having to look over their shoulder or be on high alert for a trusted adult's unpredictable moods and consequent abusive behaviour.

Your mother behaved absolutely unacceptably, and I would not ever allow her to have unsupervised contact with your child, and if you don't go NC (although I believe you would be fully justified to do so), then I would limit contact between her and your child to only in public places and never leave them unattended with her even for a minute. Your thoughts are entirely correct OP. She cannot be trusted .

Your husband was in the same room... language barrier or not, you can see what's going on with a slapping game getting more rowdy and out of hand. He should have stepped in a stopped it or removed your child from the room, or approached you to say what was going on and could you stop it/speak to her.

That said, your mother was absolutely in the wrong and if it were me, she would never be left alone with my child. It would be me supervising contact, not DH either

When violence happens it’s the perpetrator that is to blame. Stop being an apologist for violence.

As I said, the grandma was wrong to hit him.

However there were a lot of events leading up to the incident that OP and her partner ignored. Re-read the OP. The child started slapping and pushing grandma, she tried to turn it into a game (bad move but I guess she’s forgotten what 4 year olds are like) then she told him to stop, warned him of the consequences of hitting her again... and he hit her again, hard!
And all this time OP’s partner was in the room and DID NOTHING!

I agree grandma was wrong to hit him. But I also think the parents were foolish not to intervene when the slapping and pushing started (especially as their son started it. You just don’t allow a 4 year old to push and slap an older person!)

I can't believe what I'm reading. The child is 4! He got giddy and overexcited with a game and slapped GM (how hard can a 4yo hit, really?) and she walloped him back.

She would never see him again if it were my child. In fact, it would've taken all my resolve to not slap her back. It seems to be her picking on someone a lot smaller than her. I would never trust her again.

I would never ever leave them unsupervised together again, and contact would be minimal. Id also want a bloody good apology to both me and my child.

Read the OP. The child didn’t hit her hard. He is 4 fucking years old. Grandma immediately smacked him so hard he arched his back and it left a mark. She hit HIM hard. She has had 70 years to learn not to hit people, he has had 4. 4 year olds have much less impulse control than a 70 year old. He was thinking it was a game because that was what grandma had decided to do, rather than stop, explaining you do not push, and walk away. Not turning it into a “hitting game”, how incredibly immature. Stop blaming the DH, it sounds like it all happened very fast and in a different language. Grandma sounds like she in general probably doesn’t approve of how her grandson is being raised without physical discipline and was itching for an excuse to show the parents how she would do it. She sounds aggressive and full of righteousness indignation. She should not be left alone with any of her grandchildren and I hope the OP warms her siblings to be careful around her with their own children.

I'm sorry but I would be going veeeeeeeeeery quiet on her.

She is your mum but that does not mean you guys, all three of you, have to be subjected to her fucked up approach.

Just go quiet. And be busy if meeting up suggested. Keep her at arm's length. This is a fundamental disagreement. And you are right.

And the 'Trying So Hard To Be Cool And Controversial But Really Coming Across Like A Tool Award' goes to

You sound precious

Frankly, she sounds nuts.

What sort of adult thinks slapping a child is a game. It's nasty, cruel and spiteful and it's going to get out of hand.

If a 4 year old child's behaviour get a bit wild and they hit an adult a sensible adult does not retaliate by hitting back or make a threat to hit back harder.

One of my grandchildren hit me once, my reaction was to show my shock and tell them in a severe voice that they do not hit me, ever. They never did it again.

I agree the parents should have intervened as soon has their child hit the grandmother but I'm guessing they probably thought the grandmother would deal it with like a sensible, caring adult herself rather than behaving like another 4 year old child and hitting back.

@MimsyPorpington

The thing is, this is not one isolated incident. This is part of a pattern of nasty behaviour which is continuing from your childhood. You probably haven't seen it so much recently because she lives so far away that you rarely see her at all.

She was a bully then and she is a bully now. She is asserting dominance... not just over her grandchild, but over you. Her wishes will always overrule yours, and hitting your child against your will (and then doubling down by refusing to apologise and saying she'd do it again) is just one way of demonstrating that. It's about power.

It's not uncommon for people who grew up with toxic parents to just accept that "that's the way they are"... right up until the time when they see those patterns being repeated with the grandchildren. And at that point you suddenly see how wrong it always was, and how the children need protecting from those people. So that's the trigger for a lot of people to re-evaluate their relationships and go low contact or no contact.

I feel like this @MimsyPorpington but with my sister. Does this toxic dynamic continue amongst siblings. My sister feels she can scream and swear at me and yet that I can’t retaliate.

I've had my DD1 lash out at me many times and ended up with bruises, as I said earlier. I've never felt the need to hit her back. And actually, when a child hits an adult, the thing to do is calm things down, not escalate it into a play fight! The child needs to be taught that hitting is wrong, but this little boy will think that hitting is okay because his grandma made a game out of it.

(how hard can a 4yo hit, really?)

Hard enough to really hurt! Especially if he hit her legs, maybe she has varicose veins or something. How do you know it didn’t hurt her? My 4 year old has hit me very hard on occasion. And no I don’t hit back. I punish in other ways.

She was wrong to hit him back.

But the parents were also wrong not to intervene when the slapping/pushing started. And wrong not to intervene when he was getting giddy and excited, a language barrier is no excuse for not monitoring how your child is behaving. Clearly grandma wanted to stop the ‘game’ and probably didn’t want to start it in the first place!

It sounds like she was left alone to ‘parent’ the grandchild as his parents weren’t intervening... and she reacted badly (as she did with her own kids).

@RattleOfBars

(how hard can a 4yo hit, really?)

Hard enough to really hurt! Especially if he hit her legs, maybe she has varicose veins or something. How do you know it didn’t hurt her? My 4 year old has hit me very hard on occasion. And no I don’t hit back. I punish in other ways.

She was wrong to hit him back.

But the parents were also wrong not to intervene when the slapping/pushing started. And wrong not to intervene when he was getting giddy and excited, a language barrier is no excuse for not monitoring how your child is behaving. Clearly grandma wanted to stop the ‘game’ and probably didn’t want to start it in the first place!

It sounds like she was left alone to ‘parent’ the grandchild as his parents weren’t intervening... and she reacted badly (as she did with her own kids).

You are relentless with your posts, trying to blame everyone except the person that started a slapping game with a 4 year old ! There is no excuse!

@RattleOfBars maybe the GM didn't have varicose veins, maybe the 4 year old didn't hit her hard, maybe you're just using hyperbole to win this argument.

The facts we know are:-

The GM and the GS started a slapping game, why did the adult in this situation do that I wonder? The OP states it was light slapping

The GM threatened the GS with a "I will hit you harder" which of course being four time his size and several stone heavier she would've been easily able to do. She knew she could easily "win" the game.

So, if this was the GS body builder father, it would be ok for him to threaten his child?

The GM was 100% in the wrong.

But you carry on making up information to make you look right, if you condone this sort of behaviour then I think you are also wrong.

An "adult" would've moved away and tried to calm an over excited 4 year old, not start a fucking fight with him.

Be VERY clear to your DS that Grandma did a bad thing, that she should have known that the game was a game (albeit a silly one...) and she should NOT have hit him hard. Kids take on the responsibility for things and internalise blame and self judgement and he may feel ‘responsible’ for grandma being ‘sent away’. Let him off his potential ‘hook’ of blame by placing responsibility firmly on your mum.

The GM and the GS started a slapping game, why did the adult in this situation do that I wonder?

OP stated in her initial post the 4 year old began the slapping game by pushing grandma on the sofa.

Maybe grandma forgot 4-year olds get giddy and didn’t know how to calm him down when the slapping got too much for her? And the dad did nothing even though he was in the room. What what he doing?

I’m not trying to excuse her sudden violent behaviour just understand it (in contrast to all the posters trotting out the ‘Go NC’ line).

I agree she should not have hit him.

But I think the parents should have been monitoring the situation more closely and intervened as soon as their child started the slapping game or got over-excited. Especially as grandma had used smacking to discipline her own kids.

But... but... but....

Yes, but this is her actual MUM. Not a friend or random relative. To go NC, literally never see her again, plus possible wider family ramifications, not attend funeral...

For your own mum?

Over an isolated, unfortunate incident that could be managed otherwise?

I wouldn't do it personally but it's up to the OP.

Indeed, and the OP has since stated that she doesn't want to go completely NC with her mum. That's completely her call. That said, the duty of a parent is to protect their child, not to appease their parent at that child's expense. The woman assaulted him and physically left a mark. That requires considerable force. Another concern is that she hit him across the back, not the legs, and could have caused real injury. This is child abuse. It's not possible to dress it up any other way.

Second, it isn't an isolated incident. It's a long-standing pattern of bullying, abusive behaviour. A bigger red flag is that she is completely incapable of recognising that what she did was wrong, and has openly stated her intention of doing the same thing again!

In OP's shoes, contrition and a genuine apology might have meant I was prepared to let her see DC but only under my strict and constant supervision. The fact that there is no recognition there, or regret, or indication that she will defer to the OP's parenting rather than trying to impose her own bullying methods, would be enough to ensure that that child would never see her again until I was completely satisfied she didn't pose a risk.

All this can be done without necessarily going NC with her myself. But she wouldn't be going near any child of mine (and I speak as the adult child of another bullying parent who couldn't control his temper or keep his nasty hands to himself).

It scars, and a child will never forgive. It will affect them for life. Don't let your child end up like me, OP.

OP, your mother sounds unhinged, honestly. Not someone I would want my small defenseless child spending time with.

Sounds like she purposefully started a hitting game so that she could hit him. Very disturbing behaviour. It would be no unsupervised behaviour ever from me.

This has given me a flashback of a nasty incident recently between a grandmother and her grandson. Her behaviour was abhorrent and if what I saw was what she thought was acceptable in public it makes me wonder what on Earth she was doing in private! I don’t blame you for being furious and whilst I wouldn’t go NC, I would go low contact and hope that in time she might apologise.