My mother hit my child

[LenaBlack]

I have a 4 year old DS. We don't see my parents frequently due to distance. My mother visited recently, last time she has seen us was almost a year ago.

A day before her going back home she engaged with a play with my 4 year old DS where he was behind her on a sofa, at some point he pushed her and in response she pushed/slapped him back.. They engaged in a "game" of slapping .This was all light slapping at this point. My DH was in the same room, I was in the kitchen.
I came in and asked DS to help me in the kitchen ( he likes to "help"). He was giddy and overexcited (from the "game") and I cought my mother saying to him that if he hits her she will do it harder. He run to me and then turned and slapped her on leg..not very hard. He is 4!
It happened very quickly and my mother slapped him across his back in response. HARD. VERY HARD. Hard enough to see that it was hurting and he arched his back sharply, there was a red mark too.
I lost my temper and shouted at her asking what the hell is she doing...She was very angry and said my child assaulted her and nobody has the right to do that. That this will teach him to never do it again..I told her that she shouldn't have engaged in this kind of "play" and that she is an adult and should have told him to stop. She insisted that she did and he hit her....He is freaking 4 years old, really not that strong!!! I told her to tell me or DH if she can't handle him but she said she won't...
Showed absolutely no remorse and said she would do it again.

We don't hit DS, it was a big shock to him. It's days later he keeps saying that "grandma hit me really hard"..
My DH is shocked at what happened and that she absolutely refused to back down/apologise even when I was saying to her it's absolutely unacceptable.

My DS doesn't hit people. This "game" was encouraged by her and got him giddy..

I had a difficult relationship with my mother as a child and she used to hit me and my siblings. I never though she would hit a grandchild..

I can't trust her, can I?

I'm not overreacting in never letting her have him without very close supervision?

Grandma probably hasn’t been around 4-year-olds for a long time. She possibly didn’t realise how completely insane a “slapping game” between adult and child is. Or she’s nasty. But either way, both parents there, and no one nipped the game in the bud? You /DH could have just distracted them away from it.

There’s something inevitable in a “hitting game” with a 4-year-old, it’s always going to lead to tears or telling a off or both. Grandma did tell child that was enough, not to hit her again. Obviously she shouldn’t have threatened to hit him if he did, but given that you see her as violent why did you not step in immediately then? Even moving between the two of them, or scooping him up so he couldn’t hit her, or making a joke “quick, run away DS” BEFORE he slapped granny. Then follow up when DS is out of earshot to tell her that you don’t want DS slapped, ever.

However...Overexcited 4-year-old then slaps grandma (inevitably!) and grandma hits him harder (also inevitable - she already said she would).

Obviously grandma shouldn’t have done any of this. I’m not suggesting it was anyone elses fault. I get that you were relaxed and not on alert for disaster, and things happen fast. Also hindsight is perfect! But if you are going to decide to have them spend time together with you there, then next time you’re going to have to by hyper-vigilant to step in before things escalate.

"given that you see her as violent"

The OP doesn't just "see her" as violent. She WAS violent to OP and her siblings.

Cannotcope4223
NC for me. You cant change the mindset of that generation at all and they’ll discipline children exactly how they see fit depending on their mood.

Total ageist divisive tosh!

I grew up slapped, smacked and tbh a lot worse. I raised my children the way I wish I'd been raised not the way I was.

However older MIL unexpectedly gave small DS a smack (not particularly hard but huge shock for him) for some failure to do as told, and was asked in front of him:
Would it be ok if I decided to just walk over and smack her as she'd broken 'my rules' and needed to 'learn' not to?
Was her idea of a relationship him to be frightened of her?
Did she wish to continue her relationship with him?

She was shocked and mortified to be confronted, but got the message fast, plus very shocked that someone she knew cared about her was quite prepared to slap her, and if needed cut contact.
I didn't make a thing out of it as it wasn't about me punishing her, but it was a couple of years before I left him alone in a room with her.

She not only complied, she started to make the connections why DS loved her and genuinely wanted to spend time with her, and why her other DGS turned up to get money and go and behaved badly, controlled with slaps and unmeant 'sorry's.
She'd tell others how hitting as control wasn't right, we ended up with a great relationship, and DS and I still miss her.

But, tbh OP your mum sounds like she's got other issues that she'd encourage a game like that then turn on him and justify it. It's not about age I'ts about her.

No unsupervised contact, no allowing 'games' that can go wrong. Think of it as allowing your child to be around a big dog that likes him but has the potential to snap at him if over excited, therefore you never allow things to get to that point.
Be calm and reasonable if challenged, that she's not trusted because of what she's done, and her self appointed belief she has a right to do it, and that's that. Don't argue, repeat mantra, that your child will be raised your way and it's up to her to fit herself around that or not.

BTW an older family member here got into a game that resulted in a seven yr old suddenly hitting the adults kneecap hard with a hammer! Adult was apologetic for reacting with a screamed string of profanities in front of (not at) the child in shock and pain, not attacking him and justifying it. That's a normal 'silly relative got out of depth' in game, reaction.

Fucking hell. What a nightmare woman.

She hit you and your siblings, and now she's hit your DS.

I would never, EVER, allow her unsupervised time with my DC again.

YANBU!

@LenaBlack

I have a 4 year old DS. We don't see my parents frequently due to distance. My mother visited recently, last time she has seen us was almost a year ago.

A day before her going back home she engaged with a play with my 4 year old DS where he was behind her on a sofa, at some point he pushed her and in response she pushed/slapped him back.. They engaged in a "game" of slapping .This was all light slapping at this point. My DH was in the same room, I was in the kitchen.
I came in and asked DS to help me in the kitchen ( he likes to "help"). He was giddy and overexcited (from the "game") and I cought my mother saying to him that if he hits her she will do it harder. He run to me and then turned and slapped her on leg..not very hard. He is 4!
It happened very quickly and my mother slapped him across his back in response. HARD. VERY HARD. Hard enough to see that it was hurting and he arched his back sharply, there was a red mark too.
I lost my temper and shouted at her asking what the hell is she doing...She was very angry and said my child assaulted her and nobody has the right to do that. That this will teach him to never do it again..I told her that she shouldn't have engaged in this kind of "play" and that she is an adult and should have told him to stop. She insisted that she did and he hit her....He is freaking 4 years old, really not that strong!!! I told her to tell me or DH if she can't handle him but she said she won't...
Showed absolutely no remorse and said she would do it again.

We don't hit DS, it was a big shock to him. It's days later he keeps saying that "grandma hit me really hard"..
My DH is shocked at what happened and that she absolutely refused to back down/apologise even when I was saying to her it's absolutely unacceptable.

My DS doesn't hit people. This "game" was encouraged by her and got him giddy..

I had a difficult relationship with my mother as a child and she used to hit me and my siblings. I never though she would hit a grandchild..

I can't trust her, can I?

I'm not overreacting in never letting her have him without very close supervision?

Abusive people don't change, all she'll be waiting for is a 'justified' opportunity to do it again. My mum was the same to me and my siblings, my DD's are only 7 months old but if she even so much as pokes them she'll be gone.

If any adult hit, let alone left a mark, on my child, I'm not sure I could stop myself calling the police. I would certainly be utterly furious. I hope you're ok x

Why didn't you intervene earlier when the silly slapping game started. Your mother seems to need supervision when she's with your child. Supervised access is the only way to go now. Perhaps you should talk to your child about how the silly game got out of control and explain it in that way.

How old is she? I'm 54. We might have experienced it as kids but it STOPPED being ok in the 80s. It's still not OK. I'd struggle not to lamp her one.
Don't let your child be on his own with her.

You are not overreacting at all. It bugs the hell out of me when adults try to blame children for something when THEY are the ones who should have been guiding the child. In this case your mum encouraged the slapping “game” then went way too far. Who does that to a four-year-old?! You were right to call her out. If my mum acted like that (and, crucially, couldn’t see she’d done wrong) I don’t think I’d be talking to her for quite some time.

Oh Jesus stop blaming the OP. People saying she didn’t intervene quick enough, no one knows how quickly this all happened. So her mum hit her and her siblings, maybe OP hoped after 4 years of being a Grandmother that her DM had moved with the times a bit and seen you can’t hit children?

It’s fucking victim blaming. It’s Grandmas fault, the goading violent Grandma. No one else.

Op why are you referring to your son hitting and pushing as a game? Why didn't your husband step in when he first pushed her? Theres nothing cute about little kids hitting and pushing adults and if this is a "game" you encourage at home understand that when he does this to other kids they're going to hit him back.

she engaged with a play with my 4 year old DS where he was behind her on a sofa, at some point he pushed her and in response she pushed/slapped him back.. They engaged in a "game" of slapping

I don't know why you're not correcting people who claim she started the game. You acknowledge he pushed her first and he shouldn't have. It's quite clear your mum wasn't enjoying it which isn't surprising as not many people enjoy being slapped and pushed by a 4 year old. It wasn't a game to your mum.

She shouldn't have slapped him. But your husband should have told him off immediately the first time he pushed her. Your husband might well be shocked. Your mums probably shocked that he sat there watching and didn't do anything.

Yes that’s awful. The image of that would be on my mind for a long time tbh.

Have you spoke to her since?

She shouldn't have slapped him. But....

Victim blaming again. Grandma turned it into a game. Grandma escalated it. Grandma told a 4 year old, a toddler, to hit her harder, knowing the 4 year old still sees it as a game, hoping to be given an excuse to hit back harder.

It’s not the fault of the parents, who are reasonable, non violent people probably a bit frozen, rabbit in the headlights as a grown woman initiates a violent game with her own grandchild and antagonised him. They were probably a bit shocked ant dumbfounded as to why an adult would behave like this. It’s not the fault of the grandson, who is FOUR YEARS OLD, smaller and vulnerable. It’s is the fault of the violent grown up adult woman who saw a child pushing her as an opportunity to take out her aggression on her vulnerable small grandchild. Honestly fuck her, and fuck anyone who is an apologist for violence.

My DS doesn't hit people. This "game" was encouraged by her and got him giddy

I think you're being a bit naughty here.

Your ds does hit people. He was hitting your mum. And your husbands response to watching this happen doesn't suggest it was unusual.

Stop blaming the parents! Grandma is old enough to know better.

Honestly people will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to excuse violent grown adults.

Dad is also old enough to know better and should have stepped in.

Thank you for all the replies, it is helping to read people's reactions..

My mother is in her early 70s.

As to why I didn't step in - I wasn't in the room when the "game" started. I was in the kitchen preparing food.
My DH was in the room though and he told me how things started.
I don't know why he didn't step in but there is a language barrier and my mother was speaking our native tongue to DS so DH didn't understand everything..
When I came to get DS to join me in the kitchen everything happened very quickly (her warning, him hitting her leg and her hitting back) and I wasn't expecting any of it.
If I was in the room from the start I would have not allowed this "game".

I don't think I can go fully NC with her..It's my mother..She is not the best one but she is far from the worst..

She used to hit us but my father was violent too and in comparison my mother was the caring, loving one and I just didn't think she would hit a small child that wasn't hers. Especially as she doesn't see us much...
She was stressed when she was bringing me&siblings up, my father was an alcoholic and didn't help her at all and I just thought that she was fragile when we were kids and lost her temper a lot due to how difficult her life was.
Clearly there is more to it...I'm realising it now.

I'm not prepared to go full NC with her (it would have a big impact on relationship with siblings too), however, I can and I will keep the contact infrequent and ensure DS is never with her without me there paying full attention to what's going on.

To the posters telling you to cut contact completely with your mother. Would you really be able to do that to your own parent for a one off-isolated incident?

On Mumsnet, older parents seem to be disposable. I wonder how they will feel when their children are adults and think so little of them.

Ophelia you are desperate that the violent grandma is not blamed, but OPs husband is for not acting quick enough to stop it escalating. As you can see from OPs update it is not that simple. But when violence happens I suggest you stop looking to blame everyone around but the person who is actually violent. They are the problem, and the people who excuse their behaviour.

Op I can understand why you don’t feel you can go N/C with your Mum. Families are complicated. But you do not owe her anything for being the less violent parent in your childhood. At the very least I would ensure she is never left alone with your DS alone, and ideally kept at a physical distance. DS will probably remember this forever and will not want to be near her. She has ultimately lost a lot more for the sake of an excuse to las out. None of this is your fault.

"To the posters telling you to cut contact completely with your mother. Would you really be able to do that to your own parent for a one off-isolated incident?"

Don't be ridiculous. No one advised NC because of a one-off incident. It's because the OP's mother was violent towards her in childhood and because she did not apologise when challenged. These two points are evidence that it is an ingrained problem that can't be fixed. Her attitude and behaviour won't change.

I've had to cope with genuine child on parent violence from my (adopted) DD1 (now 11). She's stamped hard on my feet and tried to hit me with a rounders bat in the past. It's a lot better now, but there was a time when it was very bad.

This was one push from a four year old, so the grandma calling it an assault is honestly laughable.

Yes, he pushed her. If that was what the AIBU was about, then yes he should have been told off for it. But the grandma's response was completely unacceptable. The thing to do is calm things down not escalate and turn it into a game, which teaches him that it's an acceptable way to behave. The correct way to respond would be to tell him calmly that we don't push people. It would also have alerted his dad that something was wrong and he would have dealt with it. (If he was involved in another activity, he may not have immediately noticed the initial push.)

Then the parents can deal with the behaviour, with a telling off/sanction if needed.

This really shouldn't have been turned into a huge drama. That it did is entirely because the OP's DM escalated it.

Only one person to blame here and that the adult who slapped a child so hard she marked his back.

Your DH was in the room and could have intervened and said we don’t hit. Your DS does hit, he hit your mum and she escalated it. Strong words needed all round.

I would wait til my child wasnt around and slap her back. Hard hard.