My mother hit my child

[LenaBlack]

I have a 4 year old DS. We don't see my parents frequently due to distance. My mother visited recently, last time she has seen us was almost a year ago.

A day before her going back home she engaged with a play with my 4 year old DS where he was behind her on a sofa, at some point he pushed her and in response she pushed/slapped him back.. They engaged in a "game" of slapping .This was all light slapping at this point. My DH was in the same room, I was in the kitchen.
I came in and asked DS to help me in the kitchen ( he likes to "help"). He was giddy and overexcited (from the "game") and I cought my mother saying to him that if he hits her she will do it harder. He run to me and then turned and slapped her on leg..not very hard. He is 4!
It happened very quickly and my mother slapped him across his back in response. HARD. VERY HARD. Hard enough to see that it was hurting and he arched his back sharply, there was a red mark too.
I lost my temper and shouted at her asking what the hell is she doing...She was very angry and said my child assaulted her and nobody has the right to do that. That this will teach him to never do it again..I told her that she shouldn't have engaged in this kind of "play" and that she is an adult and should have told him to stop. She insisted that she did and he hit her....He is freaking 4 years old, really not that strong!!! I told her to tell me or DH if she can't handle him but she said she won't...
Showed absolutely no remorse and said she would do it again.

We don't hit DS, it was a big shock to him. It's days later he keeps saying that "grandma hit me really hard"..
My DH is shocked at what happened and that she absolutely refused to back down/apologise even when I was saying to her it's absolutely unacceptable.

My DS doesn't hit people. This "game" was encouraged by her and got him giddy..

I had a difficult relationship with my mother as a child and she used to hit me and my siblings. I never though she would hit a grandchild..

I can't trust her, can I?

I'm not overreacting in never letting her have him without very close supervision?

Horrible cow.

I also would go very low contact. Possibly no contact with your child.

God that awful. She deliberately initiated it as well, saying “Don’t do....” to a toddler is a red rag to a bull, any adult knows that. It’s very easy for people online to say N/C, but I think you really have to assess what she brings to your family life and if it’s worth the risk, because she probably will hit him again, given the opportunities/excuse.

Not all kids were hit in the 70s/80s. In the 50s/60s maybe more were, there did seem to be a keeping up with the Jones attitude to disciplining your children, from what I have been told. In my opinion it’s lazy parenting.

But this isn’t really about discipline. She acted in anger, she is old enough to know better.

I’m totally against smacking as punishment generally, but there is still a world of difference between smacking and what she did.

She deliberately played a game of slapping? That’s unacceptable at any age. She then lashed out in anger because she lost her own game. That’s disgusting uncontrolled behaviour.

Was she like that to you growing up?

@PineappleUpsideDownCake

I dont think you should never see her again. I dont agree at all with smacking but in her eyes it was normal from her era.

I would however make it very clear its not tolerated and not leave her alone with him. No babysitting etc.

That attitudes as bad as the abuse

WTF?!

The thing is, this is not one isolated incident. This is part of a pattern of nasty behaviour which is continuing from your childhood. You probably haven't seen it so much recently because she lives so far away that you rarely see her at all.

She was a bully then and she is a bully now. She is asserting dominance... not just over her grandchild, but over you. Her wishes will always overrule yours, and hitting your child against your will (and then doubling down by refusing to apologise and saying she'd do it again) is just one way of demonstrating that. It's about power.

It's not uncommon for people who grew up with toxic parents to just accept that "that's the way they are"... right up until the time when they see those patterns being repeated with the grandchildren. And at that point you suddenly see how wrong it always was, and how the children need protecting from those people. So that's the trigger for a lot of people to re-evaluate their relationships and go low contact or no contact.

@Cannotcope4223

NC for me. You cant change the mindset of that generation at all and they’ll discipline children exactly how they see fit depending on their mood.

It's not the mindset of 'that generation', I'm older than most on here and of an age to have grandchildren. I've never smacked my own children, it's the mindset of OP's mother.

Your mum was out of order. She shouldn't have hit him. On the other hand it does sound like your son was pushing boundaries as she did warn him.
I don't know. You don't see her often so I'd just keep contact at the same level.

I think the issue of smacking as a punishment is a red herring in this case. This is bullying and abuse, and it would have been that when I was growing up as well.

Bloody hell I was born in 1979 and now it's being referred to as "in that time " ? Well I officially feel ancient. Like others have said it was not commonplace. That indicates it was a countrywide agreed behaviour. It may have been in some areas and backgrounds but it absolutely wasnt in mine (and my first 15 years spanned both the UK and USA). I wasn't smacked or hit and the culture was that it absolutely wasn't ok. I clearly remember a school friend who disclosed her dad smacked her and there was uproar. (I grant you confidentiality was not a part of the culture).

Even so , its irrelevant when you grew up. If you are stupid enough to think hitting a child is anything but wrong and frankly counterproductive if you want to use the baseless discipline argument (yes let's use violence to teach a lesson because it works so very well in the legal system....oh wait it's even illegal then )

My exmil prior to CO made some disgusting comments about slapping my then unborn ds1 if he ever misbehaved. We were in the car and I calmly replied "you hit him i hit you" she was horrified and said you can't do that. I queried and pointed out that she wanted to use violence to make smaller and more vulnerable stop doing something. Well she was smaller than I was and I didn't want her to hit my child. I suspect my threat of violence probably scared her more because it was before my backbone arrived, but even so.

She was never ever allowed to be around my DC alone (actually she was NC until we divorced and even exdh does not ever leave her alone with them even though she has since apologised and admitted she was wrong).

It's this disgustingly entitled view of some parents of adult children that they have a right to parent their grandchildren and an over inflated self importance that their needs are more important than anyone elses. For those reasons alone she is insane because she is more concerned about her need to be right and behave in the way she chooses than the wellbeing of a child.

Why didn’t you stop the slapping game before it got out of hand?

He’s 4 and most 4 year olds know the difference between gentle pushing/slapping in a game and smacking an adult’s legs hard to enough to hurt. I’d be horrified if mine hit my mum aggressively, giddy or not. I expect she responded on instinct.

He was testing the boundaries and she showed him where those are.

I don’t agree with smacking children in general but I think there are situations where it is understandable. She shouldn’t have smacked his back (or any bony area) but a smack to the back of the leg or bottom was fairly normal for past generations.

Sounds like you’ve made YOUR boundaries clear to her now. But no I wouldn’t expect her to apologise to her grandson for disciplining him!

What a ridiculous thing to say, he assaulted her? I’d keep her away from the kids. She sounds unhinged.

But no I wouldn’t expect her to apologise to her grandson for disciplining him!

How on earth is this disciplining him??? The grandmother lost control and lashed out by hitting a 4 year old !!! Not to mention that she used to hit her own kids when they were little. Ridiculous that some people are trying to minimise and justify this behaviour!

Make sure the whole family know.

Give her the opportunity to “defend” her actions - so they will be clear that she may assault their DCs.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

She is a disgrace. I am so sorry for your DS and you.

Completely unacceptable!

Make sure you state clearly and calmly to her that she was completely wrong to start a slapping game with a small child in the first place and then to hit him hard when it got out of hand.

She got herself in that position and he thought what he was doing was part of the 'game'...frankly she is a complete fool and it is not safe to have her around your kid.

I would tell her that unless she accept what she did was wrong you will no longer allow her to see the child. He has to come first. Then let her reflect on that.

My father and mother hit me (face and body) when I was a kid and they did not see anything wrong with it. It got to a point when my father then attacked me out of the blue when I was a teenager (I was sitting down and doing nothing at the time...) and punched me in the face simply because he was the type of person who could not control his anger and I was the outlet to let that anger out.

I believe that if someone had been there when I was a child to clearly tell them that hitting a defenceless kid was not appropriate they might have at least changed their behaviour.

Unchallenged, they simply continued and got into the mindset of thinking that it was perfectly OK to be physically and verbally violent.

I had no relationship with my father through my adult life and never forgave my mother for not protecting me (she hit me too).

Don't be that person who does nothing, take a stand.

Not to mention that she used to hit her own kids when they were little. Ridiculous that some people are trying to minimise and justify this behaviour!

I’m not minimising or justifying it, but I think some people are overreacting to a single incident in which a grandmother smacked a grandchild for hitting her, after she’d given him a warning.
I’m not saying she was right. Just that OP should have stepped in before the game got out of hand. And try to see the incident through her mother’s eyes.
In the grandma’s mind it may have been discipline or boundary setting not rage or abuse! In the early 80s smacking was still commonplace in many areas, I remember children ‘getting the slipper’ in school assemblies. It was an accepted method of discipline back then.

But she was the one encouraging her DGS to play that game in this case. It wasn't a case of him being rough with another child. Any four year old boy would have got over hyped up by a game like that.

She set him up to fail. Then she smacked him. I bet she was a nightmare of a mother, op. At least, as an adult, you can take steps to protect your DC from this manipulation.

In the 70s: a kid might have been smacked for hitting an adult, or similar bad behaviour BUT in this case he didn't hit her spontanously; he took part in a rough game that she had initiated and ended up a little too rough for her taste. This is basically punishing the child for an activity that she had initiated. If he got out of hand to a greater extent than she'd anticipated, an appropriate consequence would have been to discontinue the game, not to punish him actively. This sort of capricious behaviour on her part - basically encouraging him to do something and then punishing him for it - frankly worries me at least as much as the smack itself.

No. You can't trust anyone who is OK with hitting a child, ever, they are like dogs that bite, completely unpredictable. I am always shocked that people who were regularly struck by their parents maintain ANY contact at all, particularly after having their own children.

She shouldn’t have smacked his back (or any bony area) but a smack to the back of the leg or bottom was fairly normal for past generations.

So what? Drink driving & domestic violence 'was fairly normal for past generations'. She hit him hard enough to leave a red mark.

My parents used smacking as part of their discipline when I was growing up (didn't work, I'm now an obstinate cow that doesn't fear violence from others). However they both grew with the times and both admit that it wasn't the right decision back then and would be horrified if I raised a hand to my two girls.

Your mother is completely out of line and I wouldn't trust her in the same room as your child along for the foreseeable. She sees nothing wrong with adult vs child violence and has openly admitted that she'll do it again.

If you were in Wales she would have actually broken the law, smacking has been illegal here since the start of the year.

I’m not saying she was right. Just that OP should have stepped in before the game got out of hand. And try to see the incident through her mother’s eyes.

The only person responsible here is the GM. Not Op for “not stepping in”. the mother started a very stupid game, and then lost control and hurt the child HARD when he took part. This is not okay on any level, and “seeing it through the mother’s eyes” changes absolutely nothing.

I disagree with smacking children. I think there is always a better way. I was born in the late 70s and was never smacked and neither was my mother (born in the early 50s) nor her parents (born in the early 20s).

My father on the other hand was beaten, shouted at and had his toys smashed in front of him. This had very little to do with discipline and very much to do with his father’s poor anger management.

I do think there is a big grey area in the middle with parents who did smack, but who used it as a (misguided) parenting tool and never in anger. My MIL would fall into that category. When DN was 6 or 7 months old she hit her hard on the back of her hand with a spoon that DN had dropped on the floor from the high chair - hard enough that SIL and I both heard it clearly from the next room before the crying started. SIL and I were both horrified. MIL was genuinely surprised. She thought she was being helpful. Although awful, there had been no malice behind it. SIL told her it was completely unacceptable and MIL has never done anything like it again.

Sadly, I think OP’s mother falls into the ‘poor anger management’ camp and is unlikely to change her ways.

Completely unacceptable. WTAF. Granny needs a time out. What was she like when you were little?

But what was your husband doing? Why did he not put a stop to it sooner? Be it a game or not to quote my own Dad ‘it always ends in tears’.