I’m so angry with my friend of 30 years. Do I tell her?

[Hillfarmer]

Once of my closest friends has told me she has just committed insurance fraud. I am incensed.

We have been close friends for decades and seen each other through all sorts of ups and downs life has thrown at us. She had the benefit of a brilliant education, happy family life, loving parents etc. She has an interesting and stimulating job, is noted in her field, owns her own house, has dc, is not short of money and travels widely.

When we last met up, she told me she had made a false claim on her travel insurance. I don’t want to give too many details but safe to say the claim would be worth at least £1000.

I am absolutely outraged. The more I think about it, the more furious I am. It is fraud. She must have lied through her teeth. She is taking the piss out of all of us who pay our premiums in the hope that we don’t have to claim. My ( and everyone else’s) premiums cost more because of people like her. And she saw fit to tell me...bold as bloody brass!

I as grumpy with her when she blithely told me, said I couldn’t believe she’d done this, but it could have come across as ironic or jokey. And it wasn’t till afterwards that I fully recognised how absolutely fucking angry-making it was. I’m also really angry that she thought it was OK to tell me! I now feel burdened with this information. I haven’t wanted to speak to her since that meeting and I just don’t know what to say, since I am seething.

Thing is...she is a very old and, despite everything, a valued friend. Should I tell her how I feel. And what would I be doing apart from telling her off? I don’t want this to be an end to our friendship, but i don’t feel I can let it go.

I’ve been pondering this on my own, and really don’t know where it leaves our friendship. But there is absolutely no excuse (if ever there is) for what she has done.

If I were op I would be surprised and dismayed that I clearly had such bad judgement to be friends with someone who thinks insurance fraud is acceptable. It would make me seriously doubt my ability to pick decent friends.

Insurance fraud is stealing, no different from stealing goods from a shop.

I do love you Etinox

I have examined my conscience, and I don’t think I am jealous of her. I’m angry that she felt the need to tell me. She unburdened herself but burdened me in the process.

Why get angry over something that doesn’t affect me? It clearly does affect me. It erodes something. She is making a fool out of me and everyone else who don’t do this stuff.

I’m not seeking the moral high ground, but I appear to be sitting on it anyway as the surrounding area seems to have dropped.

And yes, I AM paying for the fraudsters through my premiums. I’d rather she wasn’t one of them. Maybe there are just lots of people on here that have done it too and don’t like the implied criticism.

I literally could not give less a shit about something like this.

I dont think its trivial either. And if she's not short of cash, just why?
Not sure I'd end the friendship but I think I'd just tell her you think its poor form and if she's going to do stuff like this then you'd rather not know.
I'd be shocked if any of my friends did this, it's really dishonest.

Nothings black and white is it? Posters stating Its stealing! well yes but so is taking a couple of mini shampoos and some napkins from a hotel.

We don't know the details. The level of anger and hyperbole in the ops post makes me think it's a joke anyway..let's light the touch paper and laugh at mumsnet getting their knickers in a twist.

So what did she do? False claim how?

She's hardly mugged a granny, OP.

Tell her you think it was wrong and then leave it.

I agree with you OP, but I think it does all depend on your own moral standards. I too have a close friend of 25 years and I would be so disappointed if I found out she'd done this. However, she once cheated on her DH (no real extenuating circumstances). That didn't bother me at all - it really didn't occur to me to end the friendship as I didn't see what she'd done as that bad, just as some PPs don't think what your friend had done as being particularly heinous.

It's not black & white, it all depends on the nature of the claim.

I think there's a difference between inflating losses to cover the shortfall that the Insurance Company won't cover, & claiming for e.g. the Crown Jewels.

I was robbed in Italy a few years ago, the very helpful plod suggested how to claim to cover my actual losses.

I would certainly not relinquish a friendship over this.

She unburdened herself but burdened me in the process.
Why get angry over something that doesn’t affect me? It clearly does affect me. It erodes something. She is making a fool out of me and everyone else who don’t do this stuff.

Can you not see how ridiculous you sound?

I suspect a lot of people do commit this type of crime by elaborating on claims details.

I haven’t read the full thread but my oldest friend has done some dodgy things (tax avoidance stuff) and I really don’t approve of this. However, it doesn’t take away from the friendship we have, she has still done a lot of wonderful things for me, supported me through hard times etc. I think it’s possible to condemn the act without condemning the whole friendship.

Can you see that this level of anger and vitriol towards your friend isn't called for Op? I don't get all the drama and resentment about your "premiums". In a nice way, get over yourself.

If she travels all the time she's probably poured a thousand times more money into the company than they've paid out in her claim.

Well more fool the insurance company for falling for it. It’s only £1k I thought you were going to say a 6 figure number.

Its stealing! well yes but so is taking a couple of mini shampoos and some napkins from a hotel.

Don't be so ridiculous. Those things are part of the price of the room. You have already paid for them as it's assumed you will use them. I think you must be thinking of something like taking a robe or slippers or a towel or something which are clearly meant to stay there.

@ktp100

So what did she do? False claim how?

She's hardly mugged a granny, OP.

Tell her you think it was wrong and then leave it.

I understand people not thinking it's such a big deal. I would have thought the same too a number of years ago. I now think that even these small acts of selfish criminality add to creating a society where no one cares about anyone else. Sure, this is the thin end of the wedge but imagine a world where no one did stuff like this.

So much righteousness and 'shocked' outrage on MN. What I find amazing is how many MNers are privy to the inner minutiae of so many other peoples' lives, especially extreme detail of their financial lives and an amazing number of confessions of very personal behaviour. People left, right and centre confessing benefits fraud, insurance fraud, all sorts. It's uncanny. And when the MN is on the receiving end of such intimate discussions, naturally, it's necessary to start threads on it to validate their shock, anger, disgust at this close, personal confidante's morally inferior behaviour.

I would have just said I don't agree with that at all.

Then we would have carried on our day.

I would be surprised if one of my friends did this and would feel a bit annoyed. But short of reporting them, or telling them how I felt, there is nothing I could do so I would probably let it go. Maybe I'd give them a wide berth for a bit. But a friend of 30 years... that would be tough to lose.

I have to be honest though, I only usually click on these threads to check it isn't me pissing off a friend. I think you'd be better off talking to her than posting the exact details which they might see. I'd be pretty pissed off if my friend of 30 years posted the exact details of how pissed off she was with me on a public forum instead of actually telling me. Maybe it hasn't occurred to her that how insurance works or how morally questionable what she is doing is. You talking to her might make her think again.

she's unburdened herself but burdened me come on Op, no need to go all dying swan.

Close friend of 30 years - that's like family, in my view. Isn't it possible to care about a person whilst at the same time disagreeing with something they've done? I mean, obviously there's a sliding scale of moral turpitude and it's clear from this thread that people put insurance fraud on wildly different points on that scale, but whatever way you slice it, it's not like she's abused a child or murdered someone. Can you not maybe tell her how you feel and try to move on from it?

@SmileyClare

Nothings black and white is it? Posters stating Its stealing! well yes but so is taking a couple of mini shampoos and some napkins from a hotel.

We don't know the details. The level of anger and hyperbole in the ops post makes me think it's a joke anyway..let's light the touch paper and laugh at mumsnet getting their knickers in a twist.

Well it was £1k so more like stealing the bed and mattress than travel size shampoo

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

When someone is your friend for a long time, you think of them as honest. You assume that their morals align with your own.

The OP has just found out that her friend is dishonest, and that they operate by very different moral codes. That's not trivial because it would make you question everything you previously thought you knew about that person.

Would you all be cool with it if you found out that your comfortably off friend was bragging about being a shoplifter?

Yep.

I had a similar experience with my oldest friends. I was too shocked by their revelation to say anything at the time. But it was so at odds with my moral code (that I thought we shared) that I've never been able to see them in the same way since.

I still see them, but much less often, and something has very much been lost. I don't enjoy the visits much any more.

@CurlyhairedAssassin

Its stealing! well yes but so is taking a couple of mini shampoos and some napkins from a hotel.

Don't be so ridiculous. Those things are part of the price of the room. You have already paid for them as it's assumed you will use them. I think you must be thinking of something like taking a robe or slippers or a towel or something which are clearly meant to stay there.

This reminds me of that mumsnet thread of yore where a poster actually took a bottle of expensive handwash that had been affixed to the bathroom wall, and was appalled that the hotel had contacted her about it.

Still, it's far more restrained than today's post featuring a MNer who plans to call the police on all Halloween trick-or-treaters and report all those whom she sees taking their kids trick-or-treating whom she knows are not 'wfh' to their employers for violating 'Covid regulations'. That's today top prize for bullshit hyperbole.

I rang up my insurer who we spend thousands of pounds a year with to ask about how we could bring the cost down. He said your problem is you don’t make enough claims. Can’t see how you could be so disgusted of such an old and dear friend. Disapprove but don’t let it damage your friendship.