I’m so angry with my friend of 30 years. Do I tell her?

[Hillfarmer]

Once of my closest friends has told me she has just committed insurance fraud. I am incensed.

We have been close friends for decades and seen each other through all sorts of ups and downs life has thrown at us. She had the benefit of a brilliant education, happy family life, loving parents etc. She has an interesting and stimulating job, is noted in her field, owns her own house, has dc, is not short of money and travels widely.

When we last met up, she told me she had made a false claim on her travel insurance. I don’t want to give too many details but safe to say the claim would be worth at least £1000.

I am absolutely outraged. The more I think about it, the more furious I am. It is fraud. She must have lied through her teeth. She is taking the piss out of all of us who pay our premiums in the hope that we don’t have to claim. My ( and everyone else’s) premiums cost more because of people like her. And she saw fit to tell me...bold as bloody brass!

I as grumpy with her when she blithely told me, said I couldn’t believe she’d done this, but it could have come across as ironic or jokey. And it wasn’t till afterwards that I fully recognised how absolutely fucking angry-making it was. I’m also really angry that she thought it was OK to tell me! I now feel burdened with this information. I haven’t wanted to speak to her since that meeting and I just don’t know what to say, since I am seething.

Thing is...she is a very old and, despite everything, a valued friend. Should I tell her how I feel. And what would I be doing apart from telling her off? I don’t want this to be an end to our friendship, but i don’t feel I can let it go.

I’ve been pondering this on my own, and really don’t know where it leaves our friendship. But there is absolutely no excuse (if ever there is) for what she has done.

All these people saying it's trivial... shocking.

I'd be more concerned than angry, concerned that a seemingly intelligent friend has behaved recklessly, risking her liberty; your anger response is OTT and out of context. I save 'anger' for reprehensible acts such as child or animal cruelty. What your friend has done is foolish and misguided. Surely instead of being apoplectic, you should have cautioned her about her temerarious behaviour.

Should I tell her how I feel? And what would I be doing apart from telling her off?

If you are old friends of 30 years, doesn't she know you well enough to guess your reaction anyway?

I would wait until I had calmed down. Then wait a bit longer. Then I would definitely say something. A long term friend should be able to hear this and waiting till I was no longer angry would respect the friendship.

This type of fraud is just theft, effectively from the rest of us who pay our premiums. It is very definitely not trivial. It is very much your business and everyone else's too because the rest of us are paying for it.

Oh I see your dilemma and the comments make it even clearer how difficult it is.
I would personally feel exactly the same as you. Ten years ago I wouldn’t have seen the issue at all but now I see how everyone has to pay for other people doing things like this.
Your friend obviously doesn’t see any problem with it and would likely take huge umbrage with you bringing up your disproval.
If it was me, I probably wouldn’t say anything unless it was brought up and even then I’d just say “ohhh I don’t know how you dare hahaha I’d feel too guilty with everyone’s premiums going up etc” and do it in a light way.
I don’t think it’s worth losing a friend over but it would certainly make me see her in a different light.

i watched a program about insurance fraud one person went to prison it was for a lot more than 1k but still

is she sure shes got the money if any one thing doesnt sit right they'll investigate

I don't agree with it but then I don't agree with everything my friends do and say anyway. I think for the most part we have similar morals and values, but if one of them did something like this I'd probably be disappointed but then move on because none of us are perfect. Whether or not I'd express my feelings would depend on the person who did and the kind of relationship we had.

I’m shocked that people are so ok with criminal activity.

OP... I think the problem is that you’re having to reassess your entire friendship and history in light of this new information. You may decide it’s not a Deal breaker but i imagine it’s come as a bit of shock.

You think you know someone after all this time and it’s disorientating to find out you don’t. It makes you wonder what else you don’t know about them.

I'm not exactly shocked that so many people think this is trivial, but I do wonder at their logic.

If it's OK to steal from an insurance company is it also OK to steal from shops, or your neighbours, or your family? Do you think there are good thieves and bad thieves, or is everything fair game?

You're entitled to your own principles and to live by them. And of course you have a right to disapprove of behaviour which is, after all, a criminal offence. Your friend has reaped the benefits of fraud and in doing so she's also taken on the risks that she'll be caught and convicted. My own risks -v- benefits assessment would be very different from hers, aside from the knowledge that I was stealing. She's made her own choice (not one I'd make; likewise 'grassing' on a friend who did).

I know there's nothing so self-affirming as righteous anger and it can be a very enjoyable thing to indulge in. But if this was a valued friend of mine for 3 decades I'd be asking myself whether that righteous anger was more important to me than the friendship. And the answer would be 'no'.

You don't have to approve of every single thing your friends do: you'd be pretty feeble minded if you did. But there is such a thing as blowing it out of all proportion.

Yes you don't agree with what she's done but wow what an over reaction.

Your anger is misplaced and I'm wondering if you have some anger issues? Maybe there's something underlying, I mean you went to great lengths to say how lucky she is to have had a great education, family, savings, lots of holidays. Possibly you resent that a bit. We're all human after all

You say your friendship has seen a lot of ups and downs. So has this happened before, where you've been consumed by rage because she doesn't live up to your standards? Nobody's perfect. Possibly you had her on a pedestal and are bitterly disappointed she's not perfect?

Why not tell her you don't agree with insurance fraud and leave it there. I personally would feel so hurt if my friend dropped me in such a cruel way after a lifetimes friendship!

Are you actually behaving like a good friend here? No you want to dish out your own punishment by cutting her off. That's cruel.

I would feel like you, OP, and it would change my feelings towards her. Plus I’d be bloody insulted that she told me, as if I was a thief too!

Losing an old friend is painful, but I just wouldn’t like her as much as before. It’s not a victimless crime, she wasn’t desperate, and she must know we all pay higher premiums as a result.

You could raise the subject with her and see if there’s something going on that’s affecting her. I think I would either do that or just let go of the friendship. And that would be a shame too.

I’m surprised by how many people here think it’s trivial.

Hi op,meet her somewhere neutral and ask her why she did it and explain how you feel about it.she may ask why it has upset you do much.what would your reply be?do you know?is anything else building up that this has escalated?

You need to hear her out, and then make a moral decision.

Yes, those thinking insurance fraud is trivial, do you not understand it is a criminal act?

OP, I think you're angry because it has made you look at her in a new way. It has made you doubt that you're on the same page as each other. That you have different values. Maybe you're thinking that if she can lie so easily about that, can she also find it easy to lie about other things?

I value really honest people. They are the ones who have the same values and morals as me. So when someone I respect and like is dishonest then it worries me because I then doubt my judgement.

I think this is interesting compared to how people see benefits fraud. Both theft, but insurance fraud is seen as trivial, whereas benefits fraud is the worst thing in the world ever, could this possibly be a class thing, the same as lying on tax returns is seen as socially acceptable somehow?
I'd be disappointed if my friend did something so stupid, but not angry as it's her life she's potentially screwed up, not mine.

@bossyrossy

I’m shocked at how many of you think insurance fraud is trivial. It’s stealing.

Me too . Turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect you. Ridiculous ! I started to see several work colleagues differently when they talked about buying stolen goods as if it was an everyday normal thing to do. People behaving in certain ways really alters how you feel about them. I would not want to stay friends with someone doing insurance fraud, benefit fraud or any other kind of fraud.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

When someone is your friend for a long time, you think of them as honest. You assume that their morals align with your own.

The OP has just found out that her friend is dishonest, and that they operate by very different moral codes. That's not trivial because it would make you question everything you previously thought you knew about that person.

Would you all be cool with it if you found out that your comfortably off friend was bragging about being a shoplifter?

This.

It would make me see her differently.
I'd tell her and see if you both can move on, or not. There's no point silently seething and having both of you not enjoying each other's company.
If you're not aligned you're not aligned, you can agree to disagree or decide you don't want to remain as close. She may even decide that herself if you tell her how you feel about her committing fraud and the ball won't be in your court any more.

Apart from this would you say you're really good friends, or just have been friends for a really long time? There can be quite a difference.

It's hard to comment on the actual fraud. She could have got a partial refund for a holiday by lying about the reason she couldn't go. I wouldn't give that sort of thing a second thought.

There's a line between trying to live by your own moral code and being sanctimonious.

If it's OK to steal from an insurance company is it also OK to steal from shops, or your neighbours, or your family? Do you think there are good thieves and bad thieves, or is everything fair game?

Its white collar crime vs blue collar. Office based, paper based crime is trivialised and even applauded by people who bleat about law and ordere.

Nick food from the supermarket to feed a family and the finger waggers want you sent to the guillotinee.

I wouldn’t be bothered by this at all- none of my business!

I know someone who has done something very similar. He wasn’t a close friend and I’m glad he wasn’t because I lost all respect for him after that and avoided him when we were at social events together. He was foolish enough to try it again shortly afterwards and they caught him out. He can’t get travel insurance now.

I have every sympathy with people desperate for money who steal to feed their family. I have nothing but contempt for people are financially secure and commit this sort of petty fraud out of greed and entitlement. I wouldn’t want to stay friends with them because their values and mine are obviously worlds apart.

It's not trivial. If a friend does something wrong or that offends, you should be able to tell them.

Possibly you had her on a pedestal and are bitterly disappointed she's not perfect?

People forgive friends who aren't perfect in SOME situations. They forgive them if they get too drunk and puke on their shoes, we all make silly mistakes. They forgive them if they're quite often late because they're a bit chaotic and disorganised. Perhaps they outstay their welcome often and don't take the hint when you want to go to bed and for them to go home. Or talk over people. They might forgive them parenting differences if they're not the perfect parent - eg if they give their kids junk food more than is good for them and they know it but aren't that bothered, or let their kids get away with bad behaviour etc., or maybe aren't that regular with taking their kids to the dentist or whatever.

We all have our imperfections. But committing insurance fraud shows an element of being calculated, dishonest, and planning to deceive. This is not a nice personality trait.