I’m so angry with my friend of 30 years. Do I tell her?

[Hillfarmer]

Once of my closest friends has told me she has just committed insurance fraud. I am incensed.

We have been close friends for decades and seen each other through all sorts of ups and downs life has thrown at us. She had the benefit of a brilliant education, happy family life, loving parents etc. She has an interesting and stimulating job, is noted in her field, owns her own house, has dc, is not short of money and travels widely.

When we last met up, she told me she had made a false claim on her travel insurance. I don’t want to give too many details but safe to say the claim would be worth at least £1000.

I am absolutely outraged. The more I think about it, the more furious I am. It is fraud. She must have lied through her teeth. She is taking the piss out of all of us who pay our premiums in the hope that we don’t have to claim. My ( and everyone else’s) premiums cost more because of people like her. And she saw fit to tell me...bold as bloody brass!

I as grumpy with her when she blithely told me, said I couldn’t believe she’d done this, but it could have come across as ironic or jokey. And it wasn’t till afterwards that I fully recognised how absolutely fucking angry-making it was. I’m also really angry that she thought it was OK to tell me! I now feel burdened with this information. I haven’t wanted to speak to her since that meeting and I just don’t know what to say, since I am seething.

Thing is...she is a very old and, despite everything, a valued friend. Should I tell her how I feel. And what would I be doing apart from telling her off? I don’t want this to be an end to our friendship, but i don’t feel I can let it go.

I’ve been pondering this on my own, and really don’t know where it leaves our friendship. But there is absolutely no excuse (if ever there is) for what she has done.

When I was burgled the insurers insisted on replacing items like for like which was fine by me but would scupper they ops pals shenanigans

@Killpopp

I must have zero morals because this wouldn’t bother me at all.

Same! I'd think she was cheeky, and would never do it myself, but I wouldn't care that she'd done it. That's her risk!

@CitizenFame

If this leaves you seething, incensed and “fucking angry” I’m surprised you have any friends left (or maybe they’re wise not to tell you anything that might trigger you off).

Throw away a 30 year friendship over this if it will make you feel morally better. I just think it sounds pathetic.

^ This

Have to agree. I’d never risk doing this myself but if a friend did, I wouldn’t take any notice. I have no idea why you’re incensed or whatever else it is you are. Seems a daft hill to doe on to me but it’s your friendship to lose.

Why can’t you just tell her you think it’s not cool and you don’t want to talk about it?

I don't think it's envy OP it's about moral code. I'm furious about the attitudes on here that it's no big deal and somehow it's a moral higher ground to mind your own business than to be pissed off with people who steal.

I'm perfectly comfortably off, am not remotely envious of people's financial good fortune but still would not be at all happy with a friend who did this. So the envy hypothesis doesn't ring true with me at all.

It's the clash with how you see your friend now compared to before. I'd be questioning the friendship too.

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to end the friendship.

I think it’s a case of the OP being shocked that her friend isn’t the person she thought she was and being put off. I would be, too, tbh. I don’t think I’d be ‘seething’ but I would be disgusted.

Why do so many posters see this as trivial and less of an issue than benefit fraud, which is actually much more justified in some cases. (I’m not saying it’s right, but I’d be much more understanding about it than the type of fraud being discussed here.)

I think this story is about one woman's fall from grace and how friendship should operate in such situations. Yes, good human beings do make mistakes, hence the fascination of Greek and Shakespearian tragedy.

Telling a friend about your disgrace is very odd. She could have defrauded the insurance company and kept quiet about it. What is happening, here? Is OP curious to understand her friend's motivation? Is friend boasting? Is she sheepish but finds it a giggle? Is she going through a mid-life or mental health crisis? I think we all know that anything to do with acquiring money which isn't rightfully yours is wrong and I bet friend has shared some righteous indignation moments with OP, over the three decades - or it wouldn't be a normal friendship. So how about kindly finding out if fraudulent friend is in the middle of a crisis.

From the way the story is told by OP which is lots of repetitive stuff about their own anger, it's not exactly clear what's the scope of the moral offence. Is being bold the same as boasting? Is the assumption that OP is supposed to be in agreement that this is a kind of 'cool' and clever behaviour? I feel we need to know what was said to understand. I think better to change the facts about what kind of insurance, and keep the detail of what was said. That is if there's to be any chance of readers being able to judge.

gone above the speed limit at any time? Drank alcohol under the age of 18? Beeped a horn on your car to acknowledge someone? Been drunk in a pub, street or restaurant? Used a fake name on the internet? All these are crimes mind.

In England and Wales most of these are civil offences and I'd love to know where using a fake name on the internet is illegal (better shut down MN quickly). I'm pretty sure horn beeping during the day is a highway code violation rather than an offence.

Our civil and crimiinal law codes already distinguish between small and large breaches and fraud is criminal however much people try to excuse it because they are happy to do it.

I don't think I would be exactly angry and I wouldn't end the friendship but I would feel differently about the friend. The fact that she had told me about this and didn't see anything wrong with it would suggest to me that she wasn't entirely trustworthy and honest. The friendship would probably cool. I am surprised that so many people don't see a problem.

I agree with @Diverseopinions that it is curious that the friend mentioned it. Was she ashamed or was she boasting? Is this out of character? The OP has known her for many years, so if it’s a big character change is it possible that there are MH issues involved?

Minimising the friend’s crime isn’t right, it’s criminal behaviour and wrong at all levels. But maybe when the OP cools off, she’ll think that there’s an underlying reason for her friend’s actions.

@Wakemeupwhenthisisover

You sound a bit holier than thou. Just let her get on with her life, she is making bad choices but they are her choices, why are you so angry? Shocked it get but angry at something that doesn’t involve or affect you?

I wouldn't trust her anymore.

I'm amazed at the people on this thread whose standards are so low.

@Paintedmaypole

I don't think I would be exactly angry and I wouldn't end the friendship but I would feel differently about the friend. The fact that she had told me about this and didn't see anything wrong with it would suggest to me that she wasn't entirely trustworthy and honest. The friendship would probably cool. I am surprised that so many people don't see a problem.

It’s the way OP has got herself across. Is OP worried about her friend? Does she think something else is going on with her friend.

OP was quick enough to paint her friend out to have come from a good life etc.... well OP surely cannot know her that well and furthermore she should of asked her friend at the time is she was ok because it’s out of character for her?

I can’t believe all the people on here who are basically saying it’s fine to steal £1000, shocking. I’m totally with you @Hillfarmer and would want to consider whether this is someone I’m comfortable to be friends with. For all the posters who are basically saying this is fine, would you be so cool with it if she reached into your account and took £1000? Would you hand a stranger £1000 on the street? No, thought not Yes, premiums are going to rise but they’ll rise less if thieves don’t make false claims.

@Killpopp

If my best friend murdered someone I would genuinely help her get rid of the body.

So Insurance fraud. Meh.

You’re an idiot.

A friend of mine defrauded her hospital cash-plan account, submitting false claims in her partner's name. I felt angry for about a week and wanted to inform the company. I think it was more that she was public about doing so, that she couldn't see any problem. I decided to cool the friendship after that point, and then happened to move away about a year later.

What if the OP’s friend had told her she’d helped herself to an amazon parcel she’d seen in passing someone’s front door? Would people just say “meh” and shrug their shoulders?

Making a fraudulent insurance claim isn't the same as tax avoidance. The first is a crime, the second (whilst morally dubious) isn't. Tax evasion on the other hand is a crime. If I discovered my oldest friend had made a false insurance claim it would change the way I felt about them. It's not a victimless crime as PP have said, everyone's premiums go up as a result. I'm still battling with the insurance company over a genuine claim I had to make as a result of a burgularly during lockdown. Presumably they've had a lot of cases of people 'embellishing' the truth to sift through. In the meantime I have no insurance for my premises as noone will insure me whilst I have an unresolved claim.

@SerenDippitty

What if the OP’s friend had told her she’d helped herself to an amazon parcel she’d seen in passing someone’s front door? Would people just say “meh” and shrug their shoulders?

What’s the point of this? What if she’d robbed curry’s, what if she’d nicked from the op, what if what if what if.

She didn’t. She committed insurance fraud, what’s the point of listing other crimes?

Some folks wouldn’t be bothered
Others would be dismayed etc
Others would reconsider the relationship

Very, very few would be “seething with absolute fury” ,

I'm assuming all these posters who think it's fine don't work in a profession where you DO have to uphold moral values, ethics and honesty? There's a reason why only certain people can be signatories for passport applications, for example.

Saying you wouldn't feel anger is not the same as saying you don't approve. There is something odd about the original post because of all the emotion and extreme fury. Disapproval is a more measured and intellectual response which would go with the offence - which is puzzling and therefore gives rise to complex feelings. A friend of 30 years behaving out of character makes us wonder if it is April 1st; they are making it up; they are experiencing crisis. You can judge best when you empathize and this is a difficult post to invest in, imo..

@Diverseopinions

Saying you wouldn't feel anger is not the same as saying you don't approve. There is something odd about the original post because of all the emotion and extreme fury. Disapproval is a more measured and intellectual response which would go with the offence - which is puzzling and therefore gives rise to complex feelings. A friend of 30 years behaving out of character makes us wonder if it is April 1st; they are making it up; they are experiencing crisis. You can judge best when you empathize and this is a difficult post to invest in, imo..

Agree, and that’s the point many are making and others are misunderstanding.

Disapproving, not wishing to end a thirty year friendship, is very different to feeling extreme seething fury.

Disapproval, confusion, sadness, all the normal reactions are intellectual ones. Seething fury is something very different indeed, it is emotional, and screams there is something more behind the ops reaction.

I’d bet good money the op is not in as advantageous a position as her friend, financially, and the friend getting even more, another 1k that she wasn’t entitled to, has just lifted the lid of the resentment and envy and her fury has erupted out

This is not about the morals of the crime, it is about how would you react if a friend did this, snd normally that would range from don’t care, none of my business, to confusion, concern, disgust, disapproval.

Very seldom would it result in “ seething fury” and the sort of explosive anger the op describes.

Even those being deliberately obtuse and saying they would not wish to be friends with someone who did this, or weirdly comparing it to other crimes, stop before they say they’d feel seething fury over it.

Well the friend certainly misjudged her audience!

'Do approve', that should have been, sorry.