I’m so angry with my friend of 30 years. Do I tell her?

[Hillfarmer]

Once of my closest friends has told me she has just committed insurance fraud. I am incensed.

We have been close friends for decades and seen each other through all sorts of ups and downs life has thrown at us. She had the benefit of a brilliant education, happy family life, loving parents etc. She has an interesting and stimulating job, is noted in her field, owns her own house, has dc, is not short of money and travels widely.

When we last met up, she told me she had made a false claim on her travel insurance. I don’t want to give too many details but safe to say the claim would be worth at least £1000.

I am absolutely outraged. The more I think about it, the more furious I am. It is fraud. She must have lied through her teeth. She is taking the piss out of all of us who pay our premiums in the hope that we don’t have to claim. My ( and everyone else’s) premiums cost more because of people like her. And she saw fit to tell me...bold as bloody brass!

I as grumpy with her when she blithely told me, said I couldn’t believe she’d done this, but it could have come across as ironic or jokey. And it wasn’t till afterwards that I fully recognised how absolutely fucking angry-making it was. I’m also really angry that she thought it was OK to tell me! I now feel burdened with this information. I haven’t wanted to speak to her since that meeting and I just don’t know what to say, since I am seething.

Thing is...she is a very old and, despite everything, a valued friend. Should I tell her how I feel. And what would I be doing apart from telling her off? I don’t want this to be an end to our friendship, but i don’t feel I can let it go.

I’ve been pondering this on my own, and really don’t know where it leaves our friendship. But there is absolutely no excuse (if ever there is) for what she has done.

@Hillfarmer

You now see your long time friend completely differently

You had no idea she could lie and steal but now you know that she can

It will shift your view of her.

Also .....she obviously doesn't know you well at all - to think telling you about it was ok and you'd be fine with her stealing - she got that very wrong

I wouldn't be able to trust a friend (or anyone) who did this

So for me the friendship would be very damaged

But I could still continue to be friends - although I would have to tell my friend how I feel and that what they have done has damaged the friendship

@MsTSwift

Well the friend certainly misjudged her audience!

Yes, which is interesting isn’t it. The woman clearly didn’t think the op would react with seething fury, so again an indication there is more to this than a moralistic objection to crime.

The courts take insurance fraud very seriously. Two years ago Liverpool High Court sentenced each of four members of one family to three months in prison and fined them each £750 (€842) for concocting a fake claim for gastric illness to win compensation.
english.elpais.com/elpais/2018/10/31/inenglish/1541000032_097733.html
I'm with you OP, I think it's a disgusting way to behave. Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance_fraud

Why do so many posters see this as trivial and less of an issue than benefit fraud, which is actually much more justified in some cases. (I’m not saying it’s right, but I’d be much more understanding about it than the type of fraud being discussed here.)

Yep. I'm going to guess that a fair proportion of those entirely unbothered about fake insurance claims, would have something to say if they found a neighbour was claiming benefits they're not entitled to.

Why that difference? We insurance premium payers are paying out for fraudulent insurance claims, just as we taxpayers are paying out the cost of fraudulent benefit claims.

@Killpopp

I must have zero morals because this wouldn’t bother me at all.

Lol me too

Hi

Thanks for all the replies. All have been useful.

The reason I posted is that, of course, I have a lot of affection for my friend and don’t want this to be a deal breaker - hence the fact that this is a genuine dilemma - not just a delightful opportunity to crow. As for envy...well who knows, I was trying to honestly examine that. Financially, am prob better off than her.

But it does reframe stuff. I really didn’t want this information that she gave me. I’m not precious - yes I’ve got caught speeding, got my fair share of parking fines blah blah, so I probably am judgemental. But I would not steal or lie like this. And yes, have just paid my annual home insurance which went up by £70. So yeah, narked am I.

This thread at least allowed me to let off steam, so in that sense has served its purpose in allowing me to vent. I am pissed off about my friend’s sense of entitlement, when she really has had all the privileges and still wants more. I am privileged too. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, how people justify this kind of ‘white collar’ crime.

And crime it certainly is.

So my guess is.

Her holiday was cancelled (Covid) she got a refund but also put in a claim for a card payback?

Or something similar.

I mean. There's fraud and there's fraud.

£1k isn't worth ruining a friendship over.

Your anger's still a bit weird. You're now saying some of the emotion was due to being "narked" by your house insurance going up by what? A fiver a month? For a privileged well off person that's a non issue isn't it? And hardly the sole fault of your friend.

Anyway, glad you've calmed a bit now.. I realise some emotions are exaggerated on mumsnet for dramatic effect. I mean some people are "fuming" on here when Waitrose have run out of Fragata Olives

I’d think less of someone for this too. Much less.

Why don’t you message or speak to her and just say that you’re really surprised at what she told you, and that you really don’t approve. Ask her in future not to tell you stuff like that.

Yup Nigella...you are probably right. I let it fester. Will mention it and hopefully it can die a death.

@AyDeeAitchDee

So my guess is.

Her holiday was cancelled (Covid) she got a refund but also put in a claim for a card payback?

Or something similar.

I mean. There's fraud and there's fraud.

£1k isn't worth ruining a friendship over.

No. OP said she claimed for an item that didn't exist. Presumably a camera or phone (or something like that), that she claimed was lost/stolen/broken on holiday.

I'm with you @Hillfarmer. The sum claimed would be irrelevant to me. It's the fact that a friend would think something like this is ok, both morally and legally. And to those who think it is a matter of jealousy or envy, why would you feel those emotions towards someone who could behave in such a way? I get that you would be shocked, OP. Its seeing someone you thought you knew well in a totally different light.

I am with you OP, I would seriously re-evaluate this friendship. If she walked into a shop and stole £1,000 from the till would PP not be that bothered?

This sort of thing is really commonplace and almost normal for a lot of people.

Because people won't challenge, there's a saying I heard once :
'The standard you walk past is the standard you accept'

By not challenging people and their behaviour you are normalising it.
I find it sad that people have such low morals and standards.
If you accept the small stuff, what next?

Op has a long established friendship with her, through thick and thin. The friendship should therefore survive this issue being challenged.
Being challenged doesn't have to mean being dobbed in to the authorities.

Op. I get you and a lot of others do too.

YANBU.

@MondeoFan

I don't understand people that turn on their friends at the slightest things! What happened to Thelma & Louise type friendships. Ones when you can tell each other anything and they wouldn't bat an eyelid. You know the one where your best mate phones you at 3am to tell you that they've accidentally murdered someone and the first thing you say is "i can help you hide the body"

@MondeoFan let’s be friends!

@Hadjab and @MondeoFan but the person in this situation didn't ACCIDENTALLY do anything. She decided, with forethought and planning to steal £1000.

I don't think that's a "slight" thing at all.

I think that to some degree (and based on my own experience of discovering that my old friends were prepared to commit serious fraud), OP's anger comes from being annoyed with herself for trusting her friend, who's turned out to be actively dishonest. maybe blaming herself for being a poor judge of character.

I think other factors than the offence itself do affect your attitude to friendship. This dilemma is like two issues in one: how you feel about certain offences and what is friendship. As someone posted, one incident doesn't make an untrustworthy friend: it's a pattern. As, for reasons of anonymity, we can't be told the manner of Friend's disclosure, we don't know whether she seemed strangely elated, or what. Could there be an issue with Friend's mental health? We can't tell. Is she losing her judgement and inhibitions? We don't have a hint to tell us. It would be normal to be concerned rather than raging with a friend.

To give an example, if you had suffered loss due to dangerous driving by another, you might feel very cross with OP for having exceeded the speeding limit. It is not just one of those things. Driving slower than the maximum limit, lessens the chance of becoming a risk. For others, might feel that it is jolly difficult to always judge your speed accurately and they would feel sympathy for OP for getting points on her licence. Or worry that she might have put herself at risk. It is reasonable for some posters to think that context plays a part with OPs feelings and it doesn't mean that questioning the anger means you think insurance fraud is ok.

I think insurance fraud is wrong and wouldn't do it. I think maybe a reason people do commit this offence is that insurance is a strange commodity. Someone described it to me once as the insurance company gambling you don't need to claim and the customer gambling that they will use the benefit. It is not like buying something: it's a weird exchange. I make it work for me by having quite a big excess so I don't pay out masses of homecare or home insurance each month for something I rarely use. Perhaps this modern day crime is linked to disappointment when underwriters block claims. Fraud is still wrong nevertheless.