Losing faith in Mumsnet?

[TheWho67]

People post for validation or genuine comprehension over an issue.
Replies go either way, agree or disagree, sometimes quite strongly. I've seen a lot of posts were OP has been flamed and wished they had never posted. I've been there, under a different name. I've asked Mumsnet to have more moderators, to keep things on track but I guess that wont happen. I've seen a few posts get mentioned on DM recently and think, thank god that wasn't me! Some posts get quite out of hand and once one negative post starts, other pile on.
YANBU - to think people should stick to the question asked and not unpick every single thing.
YABU - people will naturally be critical because it's on-line and not face to face and why post on a public forum if you can't handle it.

Losing faith

As yet I've had no mail from HQ to say I should burn incense, light candles and chant prayers to them.

As @AuntieStella says, I do see a great many threads which are variations on the "nasty women" trope and frankly they can fuck off.

@JustFrigginNameChange

Where is all this racism people keep mentioning? I have not seen any outright racism on here and I visit every day. Is it on certain boards?

Really?! Clearly you haven't been reading any of the BLM threads, or the more recent ones asking for a Black MNetters board.

Same goes for you @ivfbeenbusy.

The amount of racism recently on those threads has been actually quite shocking. It's inevitable with a site the size of MN that some members will hold racist views, but the extent of those who were prepared to express them quite openly, and defend themselves was awful.

There are a lot of supportive posts for people in all kinds of difficult situations and a good balance between free expression and censorship. I think they do pretty well particularly on the trans and other feminism issues where in other places women are censored ad made to shut up. Freedom of speech is very important. I read the Guardian and the Telegraph as well as the FT every day just as my father always took the Sunday Telegraph and Observer because I like to see all view points.

When people only surround themselves with people with the same views they are not open to other ideas or do not know what they are up against as it just becomes an everyone agrees echo chamber.

Sometimes I've seen OPs asking for advice and getting roasted always in AIBU and usually in the first replies, but then someone comes along to offer a more reasoned or calm response. In terms of any anonymous online forum, MN is pretty good and the moderators are really very active.

Otherwise, there are many threads on here that are full of intelligent, knowledgeable, witty, and supportive women (and men), who provide more substantive and nuanced analysis than found in the media. I hugely appreciate them - and MN - in these dark and uncertain times.

I think that this year it had been particularly vicious. However you now see the same on things like Facebook groups and even Nextdoor. I never used to see the huge rows that break in say, my local fb group until this year.

YABU. If anyone is upset by words on a screen from a stranger they need to look at their own resilience and build it up.

.. not that it matters Sunday Times (not Sunday Telegraph) for my late father......

When I was new on here, under a different name, I posted in AIBU, quite an innocuous thread. It was an awful pile on, with some viscious comments, although there were sensible comments too and voting was 50/50. It really upset me that people could be so hurtful - like it was a sport to them. I was a liar, I was wierd , I had a chip on my shoulder. A poster supporting me was accused of being me with a different name! I don't start threads anymore.

Those who say it's just disagreement are wrong. I see lots of threads where posters just hurl insults, often misrepresenting what the OP said. I think there are many very bitter posters and it gives them a thrill to deliberately hurt others.

@TheClaws

I've been on MN a number of years, primarily on the excellent Trump threads. I dipped and out of AIBU and Chat. However, the lack of moderation of the COVID boards has bothered me. I don't expect them to be filtered down to one viewpoint only - that's ridiculous, but the level of hostility from certain posters is consistently high. Even if what they say goes against medical advice, nothing is deleted. I don't understand this obvious editorial decision of MN.

Mumsnet isn't a pre-moderated site, though. Comments only get evaluated if they're reported. It's not about an editorial decision - it's about whether or not posts break Talk Guidelines.

As yet I've had no mail from HQ to say I should burn incense, light candles and chant prayers to them.

You have to sit in a reversed pentagram while emailing. It helps to invoke other symbols of sheer demonic evil...for best results, do it on a day when you've been for Botox, held a cake smash photoshoot and bought a toilet brush.

I do agree with Xenia's last sentence about an echo chamber on the "quiche" threads at times. There's one in particular running at the moment with one poster who praises their lord (to keep in with the metaphors) on that thread, yet on other threads on the same topic is the opposite. Quite an interesting sociological study really. (I just read to report their ageism which, given the argument, is rife)

I think it depends very much on where you post and what you are posting about. There can be a very toxic vibe sometimes, where someone asks for advice and is dismissed with one line 'smart' remarks from various posters. You can almost hear the sighing and see the eye rolling as they batter their keyboards in disgust at the OP's naivety/stupidity/ignorance (delete as appropriate). Why bother to post if that's all you have to contribute? If you think a poster is asking a question to which there is an obvious answer, help them out. It can be done politely, without the whole 'are you dense?' attitude. I can't stand the attitude of people who say that they just say it like it is - as far as I'm concerned that's code for 'I don't give a shit about anyone else's feelings'.

@BIWI

Comments only get evaluated if they're reported. It's not about an editorial decision - it's about whether or not posts break Talk Guidelines.

Yes, but when they are reported, MN can be v subjective about what they delete or not.

I had a particular situation where a poster was persistently directly mocking me & a particular ethnic group linked to my country & MN would not delete the posts, despite multiple reports, not just from me.

@ClinkyMonkey

Totally agree. I sometimes think...god you're daft, dense, uninformed, stupid or whatever but no way would I go and post anything off that nature!
I just don't post and ignore the thread or post.
Why people can't be kinder to each other I do not know.
I posted on a covid thread for the first time last week. One polite post
This poster tore me to shreds for considering covid was a bit of a problem! She was unbelievably vile and sarcastic I told her she was rude and walked away.

What is up with people it's beyond me
Just be kind to your fellow human beings

I find the Style and beauty, property, telly and health boards completely supportive and fun

Thats not been my experience. I posted on beauty that I wanted to try a new face serum, it was only just out and looked really good and I asked if anyone had tried it.
I got told I needed to "get a life/get out more" - all during lockdown which made it especially ironic. I was posting about a beauty product on a BEAUTY THREAD. Not sure how wanting a new face cream means I "have no life"? I also got told I was sad for having beauty as a "hobby"- firstly, I never said it was my hobby and secondly, it was like only the 2nd post I ever posted on beauty. I dont get the need for all the nastiness. If you dont like beauty then why the fck are on the beauty thread in the first place? Its like me disliking cats and then going on a cat thread telling everyone they are dumb for liking cats. Some people are really pathetic if thats their only entertainment in life.

There's also a strong anti-intellectual aspect to that which is pretty representative of the country generally

This isn’t a bad thing imo. Too many people consider that people who do not have much of a formal education or are of a lower class to themselves have nothing valuable to contribute. Shutting people out of conversations because you feel as though you have some special insight due to your education or class is a dangerous game.

When people pile on the ‘thick, underclass, ignorant’ etc etc I believe they fail to see the irony. That very way of thinking and behaving has created political exclusion which has resulted in the very things people on here complain about.

You have to sit in a reversed pentagram while emailing. It helps to invoke other symbols of sheer demonic evil...for best results, do it on a day when you've been for Botox, held a cake smash photoshoot and bought a toilet brush

Damn - I forgot the pentagram.

I think people are starting to treat every area of MN as if it’s AIBU. Really sad

As pps have said, I'm not sure why one would have faith in an internet forum.

Especially not when regularly there are goady threads that call most women naïve if they believe their male partners, that the UK's education system has low standards, or similar and then posts in say shite about how everyone is being too defensive and they just wanted to have an interesting conversation/ask a question on whatever topic. And then there is the convenient dripfeeding or just outright fakes, but people can only respond to what's written and their own experiences of similar posts they've seen.

There are overly harsh responses, but whether the person actually believes what they're saying is also up for debate (same with the regrets). This can be true in person, though rarely against the amount of people as in an internet forum.

I'm not losing faith in Mumsnet.

I AM losing faith in people's ability to use critical thinking, and realise what is going on in the wider world. MN is known as a place where women speak freely, - Can't have that, oh no.

There have been widely reported posts on Twitter/Facebook/reddit urging members to complain to MN advertisers, come on here and basically wreck it, and put women off. Those people aren't going to start a post with "Hi, I'm here, you bitches had better listen to me....".
This is an anonymous forum. People can assume any persona.

Sometimes people pile in with the weirdest comments too. Many years ago I posted about a whole class detention, a child had done something to the teacher, like water in her handbag or something and they were trying to find out who it was. My Ds was incensed as he got a detention - basically no one knew who had done it and no one confessed so they put the whole class in detention. My DS (who had never had a detention in his life) thought it grossly unfair and I posted asking whether I should complain to the school.

Well... I got told a) it was obviously my child who had done it and b) I was laughing at the teacher . There were 300+ posts like this, when I just wanted to spark some debate about inappropriate punishments, and get some affirmation I wasn't being "that parent".

BTW I did complain and got an apology from the school, they said it wouldn't happen again, they said they had gone down the wrong route to find the culprit and had had to follow through.

tldr; I think it's been the same for years, my example was from 5 years ago!

@OlympicProcrastinator

There's also a strong anti-intellectual aspect to that which is pretty representative of the country generally

This isn’t a bad thing imo. Too many people consider that people who do not have much of a formal education or are of a lower class to themselves have nothing valuable to contribute. Shutting people out of conversations because you feel as though you have some special insight due to your education or class is a dangerous game.

When people pile on the ‘thick, underclass, ignorant’ etc etc I believe they fail to see the irony. That very way of thinking and behaving has created political exclusion which has resulted in the very things people on here complain about.

That's very true. The people who pile on to a poster for a grammar error (or worse, then go on to justify humiliating somebody on a public forum by saying "if I were that thick I didn't know how to use "should have," I'd say thank you if someone pointed it out") don't tend to be so grateful when you then point theirs out (in the interests of what they want you to do) Funny that.

Because they always do make mistakes, often far worse than any misplaced "of".

Pedants' Corner went from being a slightly geeky zone where we'd all discuss random language and linguistics stuff to having its own "quiche" of nasty fuckers who would run over there with their "just seen this on a thread mwahahaha".

As pps have said, I'm not sure why one would have faith in an internet forum

I agree with this. MN is no different to any other public internet forum. Yes, sometimes the vitriol and hatred towards innocuous, meaningless stuff is quite puzzling and I cant imagine how those people function in real life with such high levels of pent up rage about such insignificant things. You have to accept that on a public forum, you will get unpleasant people commenting, you'll have lovely people and you'll have shit people. Thats the internet for you. There is nothing to have "faith" in- its just life. When the nastiness gets too much I just log off- thats the beauty of the internet, you do not have to engage in it nor let it affect you.
When its clear people are unable to talk about something without throwing attacks and personal insults I just leave that thread. I'm not going to let a stranger bring my mood down. Thats my responsibility to protect my own feelings, not theirs.

@MashedSweetSpud

There’s another site online (which if I mention the name of it my comment will be removed) and quite a few people here are mocked/laughed at, some are mentioned regularly.

When you post online it goes a lot further than here and DM.

I know where you mean, only a few posters have been mentioned and they are the worst offenders in terms of hectoring and bullying others so in a sense they set the tone themselves. However I do agree that in an online forum you have to accept that the universality of the community means you don't get to choose your company.