To not cross line at junction to let police past

[DiggerDave]

First post on mumsnet and could be a controversial one!

Many people don't seem to be aware that you're not technically allowed to break the law to let emergency vehicles past, including crossing the line at the lights. Police supposedly know this and Blue Light Aware, which advises on how to help 999 crews, says on its website: "On these occasions, they know that other motorists are not allowed to ‘jump’ the red light, and the emergency vehicle would ideally not activate its sirens and lights until it was safe for the vehicle in front to cross the solid white line at the junction."

The problem is that many officers don't seem to have got this memo and will attempt to bully you out the way, like one did to me today.

About 18 months ago, I pulled across the line to let an ambulance past and got a fine and three points. As the line was set back from the counterflowing traffic, I wasn't causing any danger and it was a perfectly safe manoeuvre.

I wasn't initially concerned and thought I could get it rescinded. To my surprise, they wouldn't remove it and I had to take the points. This would be a pain for any driver, but in my case it affects my job significantly. I'm a site supervisor and my job requires a Class 2 HGV license amongst other things. My employer is extremely strict and won't tolerate more than six points - it's company policy. I'm already on three now thanks to the above incident and another such incident would put me on my last chance.

I can't afford to lose the ability to provide for my family, so today when I was at the front of the queue and everybody else moved over, I made the police car wait. He started beeping and flashing and so did the other drivers. Once he finally went past, giving me an angry glare, I then had several other drivers giving me wanker signs etc.

What's a bloke to do! Really made me feel tiny but didn't have a great deal of choice! There was a great big red light camera (gatso type) right next to me so was unlikely to get away with it.

It's done now, time to move on, I'd say.

(As long as it doesn't involve jumping the lights...)

Indeed lol.

I've got an interesting day in store tomorrow. One of our drivers has wedged a truck in the rear exit of one of our storage company clients (usually they turn around and drive out the exit, or just reverse in).

The manager is claiming structural damage and I'm supposed to be going and having a butchers. Truck is jammed between corner of client's building and the wall of adjacent one.

Drive out the entrance I meant. The exit is too narrow.

I don’t drive very much and I’ve driven to the side over a red light to let emergency services past. Idk why that’s so unbelievable for people to have done that. I only learnt recently that I could get points and a fine. It’s rubbish you’ve got caught out for doing what I still consider to be the right thing.

I would always move. You might be saving someone's life by doing so. And that trumps a fine/points on your licence. I would still be pissed off, though.

I think people saying they’d risk their livelihood and ability to pat their bills to save an ambulance waiting are not thinking this through very critically. If you’re expecting OP to do that then I hope you’re planning on defaulting on your own mortgage and donating all the money to a charity.

You will 100% be preventing someone’s death by failing to pay your own mortgage in that scenario. The likelihood is much lower that OP losing their job because they moved for an ambulance would actually make a difference to the outcome for anyone.

Look forward to you all setting up enormous direct debits to fund life saving vaccinations in the developing world. Given that you hold the (very worthy) belief that your own financial wellbeing must never come before anyone else’s health.

I would always move. You might be saving someone's life by doing so. And that trumps a fine/points on your licence.

Well, it's not just a fine/points as I said. It's the near certainty of losing my livelihood and then having to move house as there aren't any companies close by I could work for in this role. Even then, I might struggle to find work in a compliance role monitoring amongst other things the endorsements company drivers have, whilst having a fair few myself - I'd be like a policeman with a criminal record. And it would mean my kids moving schools etc, partner changing job etc.

Much more than just points and a fine, and all caused by exactly the same situation that put me close to the company limit in the first place (previously running the lights for an emergency vehicle). Sorry, but I'm not having it. Either they waive the points for people who break the law to facilitate them, or they wait.

YANBU. Neither I nor my DH would risk getting points by crossing the line in this situation (we're well aware of this rule). Essentially, it's illegal to do so. Although people are acting with the very best of motives, they are acting illegally and it is not for the individual to decide which laws to obey and which to break. The emergency services should not be encouraging traffic violations and, if it's a big issue, the law needs to be changed to allow this.

Oh crumbs, this was me last week, i didnt know it was illegal either. Can’t remember if there was a camera, i didnt go across the junction just shifted over to the left, but as i was stopped at the light, first in the queue i had to move forward in order to change position.
You never know where the ambulance is going to push its way through, so everyone just sifts as best they can

I came on here to say YABU, but reading your post I am about the fine and points! YANBU and I will think twice now if put in that situation. The law needs to be changed there.

@honeygirlz

Yeah but in the hundreds of times I’ve let police/ambulances pass you would think I would have seen someone have to cross the junction line. Hasn’t happened.

Perhaps you just aren't very observant? I've certainly seen that happen more than once.

I'd suggest you report the police driver even without details of the numberplate. It ought to be possible for them to trace who was likely to have been at that location at that time answering an emergency call.

Thanks OP, I might have judged a truck not moving but will now understand their reasoning.
Ignore people who say you should risk your livelihood to let someone through, very easy to talk online when they're not the ones facing their life being ruined and they're certainly not going to be putting their hands in their pocket to help you.

You ‘instinctively’ hit the break and ‘forgot’ that you were going too fast to safely carry out the manoeuver you had signalled to motorists behind you

YANBU and I think the law should be changed to allow the fine to slide in such circumstances. I’ve had to do the same - the ambulance picked my lane because I was the only one in it so yes I did feel forced to move (large four way junction so definitely more than 5s wait). Either the driver in the next lane that I pulled in front of me would have voted YABU because he beeped at me or he was completely obvious to the emergency vehicle.

YANBU and it's a law that absolutely needs changed. I know others that have been stung with this before also and whilst I haven't, it makes me much more cautious when moving for an emergency vehicle. You did the right thing OP.

My husband used to drive a lot between London and two/three hours away and he got quite a few points to the stage he took the train for 6 months. One was for stopping in the wrong place, one was for overtaking but the line was broken/lined- he was also breathalysed several times as the police seemed to sit in wait late at night although of course he had never been drinking, they would then check the car for faults, again, no biggie but there's always a chance you could have a light issue.

I do get it, it's very easy to get points if you drive a large amount, and I did not know that about the line/police issue, it's actually crazy they would fine for that.

That's ridiculous. However, your employer needs their head wobbling too, if they don't make allowances. However, given I've never had points on my licence since 1990 it's unlikely that you will get more (that said, I don't drive that much, I suspect it's an occupational hazard if driving is your occupation as a lot of things seem designed to catch drivers out).

I didn't realise that you couldn't go over the line to get out of the way if it made space.

I also think sometimes emergency vehicles startle people too much and scare them, and that could cause accidents. Quite often they put the siren on when nobody is around and they've got a clear road in front of them, I don't know what that's about.

A friend is a paramedic, I'll ask her about this.

Can''t believe you got points for this, thats awful. Did they explain why they didnt overturn it? Think I would have chosen to go to court on appeal and got a solicitor. Thgere would have been further camera shots of the emergency vehicle

Same as when queuing in traffic etc, in future position your vehicle so if a blue lighter comes along, you have space to manoeuvre without committing an offence.
god I hate it when my dad is proved to be right
You'll still get some odd looks, leaving massive gaps in traffic, and occasionally get a wanker who overtakes and fills your space, but it will hopefully help avoid these scenarios.
Although, how far back can you stop from a junction and still trigger the lights?

Similar things have happened in Australia with traffic lights, red light cameras and ambulances. People tend to avoid moving out the way that I've seen at a red light with cameras (not all have them here) and why wouldn't they if they risk a fine and loss of license, points, possibly work too.
It can be fought but not always won and if you don't have the means too fight, your screwed.

Blue light drivers are supposed to be trained to avoid instances such as the OP has experienced. They aren't supposed to bully people out of their way and cause them to break any law. The OP did the right thing. The police driver got their planning wrong and put themselves in a position of relying in the op to move - a properly trained driver would have held back and kept their options open (such as wrong side of road driving). Or, if alternatives weren't possible then their training is to turn off the sirens and wait.

We had lots of cases when a bus lane was installed (with cameras) and drivers were pulling in to let emergency vehicles past. The local police/ambulance and fire service issued a joint press release to say not to pull into it, just slow/stop in their own lane and leave their blue light drivers to choose their own route.

I used to move over the line for emergency vehicles until somebody told me I shouldn’t so I checked and they were right, you can get a fine/points for doing so.
Quite aside from the fact that anyone could claim there was an emergency vehicle behind them as a defence (although hopefully there would be camera footage) blue light drivers are specially trained to navigate red lights etc and it’s not really safe for the average motorist to make decisions about whether they should go through a red light or not
I don’t care about being flashed or called names, I won’t go through a red light