To not cross line at junction to let police past

[DiggerDave]

First post on mumsnet and could be a controversial one!

Many people don't seem to be aware that you're not technically allowed to break the law to let emergency vehicles past, including crossing the line at the lights. Police supposedly know this and Blue Light Aware, which advises on how to help 999 crews, says on its website: "On these occasions, they know that other motorists are not allowed to ‘jump’ the red light, and the emergency vehicle would ideally not activate its sirens and lights until it was safe for the vehicle in front to cross the solid white line at the junction."

The problem is that many officers don't seem to have got this memo and will attempt to bully you out the way, like one did to me today.

About 18 months ago, I pulled across the line to let an ambulance past and got a fine and three points. As the line was set back from the counterflowing traffic, I wasn't causing any danger and it was a perfectly safe manoeuvre.

I wasn't initially concerned and thought I could get it rescinded. To my surprise, they wouldn't remove it and I had to take the points. This would be a pain for any driver, but in my case it affects my job significantly. I'm a site supervisor and my job requires a Class 2 HGV license amongst other things. My employer is extremely strict and won't tolerate more than six points - it's company policy. I'm already on three now thanks to the above incident and another such incident would put me on my last chance.

I can't afford to lose the ability to provide for my family, so today when I was at the front of the queue and everybody else moved over, I made the police car wait. He started beeping and flashing and so did the other drivers. Once he finally went past, giving me an angry glare, I then had several other drivers giving me wanker signs etc.

What's a bloke to do! Really made me feel tiny but didn't have a great deal of choice! There was a great big red light camera (gatso type) right next to me so was unlikely to get away with it.

I've actually just been asked to deal with a case at work where one of my best FEL drivers (a driver foreman no less) has managed to get himself 12 points and may need to attend a hearing with the traffic commissioner.

He got two speeding fines in last three years, both borderline at 35 in a 30 (police usually allow 10% +2mph) but then got caught for 'using a mobile device while driving' or whatever the offence is. However, what he allegedly did was actually pick up his bluetooth earpiece from the dashboard and put it behind his ear to take a call whilst stationary in traffic with the handbrake on.

Frustrating thing is that he wouldn't in a million years use his phone handset whilst driving but didn't realise that handsfree devices aren't considered 'hands free' if handled whilst the engine is running (at least that's my understanding, which I'll need to clarify).

It's a bit frustrating as he'd have been ok picking up a pack of fags, a lighter, a cd, cloth for windscreen etc, but not to pop an earpiece behind his ear. Obviously, a phone is different as one usually needs to take one's eyes off the road to use it, but realistically speaking it's no more dangerous to put an earpiece behind your ear than it is to put your sunglasses on while stationary with the handbrake on. I dont however expect the TC to take this view and he will most likely be suspended and have to return in some kind of administrative role for the time being, likely with a substantial pay cut.

I don't move now if at traffic lights and an emergency vehicle is behind me, I feel bad

It’s not good feeling bad, move for ambulances!

Blue light drivers should not be creating a situation where drivers are putting themselves and others at risk. They should turn sirens off but keep blue lights on and wait until it is safe to proceed. It usually only a matter of seconds.

It’s not good feeling bad, move for ambulances!

I'd be interested to see the results of the following poll.

Would you rather:

a) Lose your job and ability to provide for your family, knowing that there are no companies in your area where you could get a comparable job (or who would employ you with the points on your license).

or

b) Delay an emergency vehicle for five seconds.

Your poll is flawed because the delay is often not 5 seconds. Lights can be red for 30 seconds +.

Well, the obvious answer is to delay the emergency vehicle for a few seconds rather than create a secondary collision for them to attend.

It’s not good feeling bad, move for ambulances!

I'd be interested to see the results of the following poll.

Would you rather:

a) Lose your job and ability to provide for your family, knowing that there are no companies in your area where you could get a comparable job (or who would employ you with the points on your license).

or

b) Delay an emergency vehicle for five seconds.

B)
I know a few people who have moved across into bus lanes to let emergency vehicles pass and they've been flashed etc then received fines
It's the emergency vehicles who should use that lane. A few seconds wait surely should be ok ,

Why have you posted that twice?

Ah, double post. Didn't realise had posted already (I'm using a vpn as on work server).

I’m quite shocked. I was a response trained police officer in the 90s and I had no idea that was true. This was when red light cameras were only just beginning to be to be used though, so it probably just never came up. No officer would have prosecuted someone for going over the line to make way for an emergency vehicle.

Your poll is flawed because the delay is often not 5 seconds. Lights can be red for 30 seconds +.

Only very rarely (generally on large four way junctions in cities).

the length the amber light displayed when changing from green to red is 3 seconds. This is then followed by 2 seconds of red. These values are a legal requirement and cannot be altered in the UK. The variable part is the intergreen that separated two or more conflicting traffic movements.

www.roadsafetyknowledgecentre.org.uk/help-forum/384.html

Am I missing something? Why are you only taking about change from green to red?

You can be blocking the junction for far longer than 5 seconds when the lights are red.

But you wouldn't sit and block a junction for 3 minutes eg., when you'd already run a red light surely? You'd get out of the way not sit in front of the lights stopping all other traffic?

Get a dash cam . I have one
This happened to me
I got a solicitor who specialises in driving offences to defend me
It was thrown out a few weeks ago
Didnt have to go to court either
Solicitor cost about £1000
But I should get a big portion of that back

Either way, Honeygirlz, I don't believe that the majority of people would move in my situation.

If it was a normal junction with no camera it would be a different story, but I've already got three points from this exact same scenario, could see the camera, and know for sure that my employer will not tolerate six points.

I'd have to relocate to get a similar position as my employer is quite specialised and this would mean taking my kids out of school and uprooting my whole life. It's a lot to ask for a few seconds.

I'm not exaggerating. After the previous instance where I got points, I told myself I wouldn't let it happen again so I immediately knew what was at stake having considered it previously. The police need to sort this out rather than fining people when they can clearly see the situation from the footage.

I would always give way to an ambulance, unless it would put me or others in danger. And I believe most people would.

No, the police don’t need to sort this out. Don’t do anything that will put other drivers at risk. Blue light run or not, you don’t muck about at junctions. If the blue lighter has to wait then so be it.

But you wouldn't sit and block a junction for 3 minutes eg., when you'd already run a red light surely? You'd get out of the way not sit in front of the lights stopping all other traffic?

Usually there is a fair distance between the line and the intersecting road, which I've always assumed is to give arctics the necessary room to swing out and cut back in without hitting cars when doing a 90° turn.

There usually ample room to cross the line without blocking the junction - I was in my 16ft long pickup truck the day I got fined and still didn't block the junction when letting the ambulance past.

Very often you're not.puttinh drivers at risk though. I wasn't on the two occasions I've done it.

Admittedly I pulled over diagonally, but still the average car would have plenty of room.

Diggerdave exactly..my roundabout one there's maybe 3 car lengths before you pull onto the roundabout. But if there wasn6, you wouldn't just sit there and let traffic pile up.around you. It was a stupid point.

Blue light run or not, you don’t muck about at junctions. If the blue lighter has to wait then so be it.

There is certainly some logic in not allowing the public to take matters into their own hands. Should a driver mow down a schoolchild crossing the road then it becomes a sticky situation if they're 'allowed to' ignore the law in this situation.

Of course I would hate to think that I may have delayed the critical response to what could be a life threatening situation, but the red light was already stale and I was praying for it to change as I saw the police car coming.

In that moment I knew for sure that I would risk a good chance of losing my job if that camera flashed me, so I waited a few seconds.

I had no idea pulling over the line would cause such problems, blimey.

I don't blame you for sitting at the light.