Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

At the new high school here the toilets are all unisex - individual little rooms that open out onto the corridors. They are still having to have a member of staff monitoring the main bank of them to stop kids banging on the doors

Unisex toilets sound like really really hard work..

Schools are short staffed half the time as it is. Supply teachers , and a level students taking classes, the pe teacher having to cover maths, and staff with radios fire fighting in classrooms with zero back up.

Where do all these toilet staff come from? There's no one around when you get shoved in the queues outside class rooms or your stuff is being thrown about....

Yet as soon as unisex toilets appear despite the claim they improve behaviour etc all these staff members show up. Any idea why? Why are they needed ? And I mean why weren't they around when the toilets were single sex? Almost as if there's something about unisex toilets that means more supervision is needed. Wonder what it is..

I actually think YABU only because the same thing is happening at my childrens school and I don't see the issue as the toilets are all individual

Our toilets have always been individual toilets so anyone walking along the corridor could in theory bang on the door. The only thing now is the kids don't have options, if there is a queue at one they can't go to another set as they can only use certain ones . Our school has said it is so you do not have groups hanging out inside the toilets out of sight.

Di you realise there's a difference though between purpose built unisex self enclosed toilets and cases like the ops where basicalky the sign on the door has been changed "cos covid" from previously single sex facilites. They are not originally designed to be unisex

@Whatwouldscullydo

At the new high school here the toilets are all unisex - individual little rooms that open out onto the corridors. They are still having to have a member of staff monitoring the main bank of them to stop kids banging on the doors

Unisex toilets sound like really really hard work..

Schools are short staffed half the time as it is. Supply teachers , and a level students taking classes, the pe teacher having to cover maths, and staff with radios fire fighting in classrooms with zero back up.

Where do all these toilet staff come from? There's no one around when you get shoved in the queues outside class rooms or your stuff is being thrown about....

Yet as soon as unisex toilets appear despite the claim they improve behaviour etc all these staff members show up. Any idea why? Why are they needed ? And I mean why weren't they around when the toilets were single sex? Almost as if there's something about unisex toilets that means more supervision is needed. Wonder what it is..

To be honest the school always had to staff the toilets, but now they hae "helpful" unisex cubicles dotted around the building. The HT is seriously pissed off as she objected to these at the drawing of plans stage.

The big problem is actually parents. The HT took a really hard line on kids messing around in the toilets a few years ago when a child was badly hurt. After a week of kids being sent home for messing around parents starting whinging that they had to work etc etc etc nad got onto the governors. They also complained about it in inspection questionnaires (which is really shitty).

If parents don't back up the school then the school's hands are tied.

Unisex toilets absolutely bring out the worst in kids though. I've worked in a few primary schools with them and without fail the behaviour in the toilets is worse. It starts with more showing off and deteriorates from there.

@MomToTwoBabas

I actually think YABU only because the same thing is happening at my childrens school and I don't see the issue as the toilets are all individual

But you’re not the one using them, so you not giving a shit about how girls feel, is actually irrelevant. The OP has already explained that the girls are being harassed by the boys, but you don’t care, so no one else should?

@MomToTwoBabas

I actually think YABU only because the same thing is happening at my childrens school and I don't see the issue as the toilets are all individual

Different schools have different problems... This set up is clearly not suitable for the children at this school

Presumably if you have a DD and she starts to get the treatment mentioned in the OP you wouldn't be happy about it

I would complain, complain and complain again. Boys in girls toilets is not acceptable. Ever.

Unisex toilets absolutely bring out the worst in kids though. I've worked in a few primary schools with them and without fail the behaviour in the toilets is worse. It starts with more showing off and deteriorates from there

I've never understood the mentality of people who think they improve behaviour. How can doubling the number of kids using them means its better.

It usually transpires to be becuase if several things.

The supervision- then supervise the other toilets as much then.

That theres cctv- erm why do you need that if behaviour is better ?

The op discloses that her daughter and their friends are either not drinking all day , or they all sneak out and go to Laura's House at lunch cos her mum said they can use the bathroom there. Often the sons are even really uncomfortable. -so there's already plenty of kids not using them.

That the girls have basically been given the job of either absorbing the bad behaviour or being used to help influence/ prevent bad behaviour - so as well as being used as behaviour management via seating plans in class they now are behaviour management for the toilets too. No wonder staff feel they are a success because they arent having to do anything its all outsourced to the female students. Kids. Who are still learning how to behave themselves.

And then we have to look at statistically what we know which is that girls as a rule do not speak up. And if they do they are blamed or not believed , we need to stop taking a lack of complaints or reports as a sign its working. Girls as young as six are being raped in.primary schools in plain sight and no one notices .

So why do we think its so successful?

Convenient maybe. Successful I think not. Theres no behavior management done in unisex toilets that surely can't be applied to single sex ones if necessary.

Sorry to ask, but it’s been suggested I get this thread moved to the feminists board. How do I do that and will the thread just continue over there?

@tarasharp

Sorry to ask, but it’s been suggested I get this thread moved to the feminists board. How do I do that and will the thread just continue over there?

You can report your own first post to MNHQ and ask them to move it. They’re usually pretty good at moving posts.

Thank you.

DD2's school has also done this. But your GDG is in the wrong year group to be at the same school, I think.

it’s been suggested I get this thread moved to the feminists board

@tarasharp I don't think you need to (or should, for that matter). This is something we all need to know about, and have a think about, and parents of daughters probably need to be warned about.

This topic - the safety & well-being of girls in spaces where they re vulnerable - is a really important issue and AIBU gets most traffic on this site.

Thinking more about the well-being & mental health aspects of your DGD's situation - isn't it odd that there is so much concern, and so many resources, going into young people's well-being & mental health, yet on this very very basic matter, where girls are vulnerable & possibly already anxious (periods at school are a nightmare) we're currently saying to girls "Like it or lump it. Deal with it. If you can't cope, you need to toughen up."

This is enraging and upsetting.
Quite a rough comp never any issues with other girls in the loos would have hated boys being in there. What are they thinking? How can any female staff member approve this?

My two at an all girls state school - this is no accident

No don’t get it moved. A lot of people have hidden the feminist board so they can pretend things like this don’t happen. Leave it where it is and complain to the school.

Totally agree with Italian. This should not be in the silo of feminism topic - you will be preaching to the converted. This affects everywoman and her daughter.

It was only suggested she move as iver there, practical advice would be given and some actual help.

Sadly on aibu its competitive not caring when it comes to this stuff

Fair point @Whatwouldscullydo but a lot of FWR regulars and good feminists have indeed answered the OP with supportive posts & concrete ideas about what to do to counter the move to mixed-sex lavatories in schools.

But I do think this is an important issue for women and girls generally.

Crikey secondary school is bad enough re bullying & harassment. And now girls have to put up with the behaviour the OP describes.

I know I was just worried they would get lost/missed between all the ",girls do it to" and "I dont see a problem "

I'm all for raising these issues all over mn but when there's an actual person involved who needs and its not just a discussion and/or awareness raising I think its best to put all the irons in the fire abd ask the "experts" aswell as have it here

Tarasharp

What exactly is the setup at your DGD’s school? I know the cubicles are enclosed, but do they have their own sinks and sanitary bins? Do they open out onto an open area or a separate room like a normal toilet block?

Oh I’ve already asked mumsnet to move it, but so far they haven’t responded. I’ve asked my dgd if she’d mind me sending an email to the head. She said no but not to mention her name, I just want help with the best way to word my email.

WhatsupJanetWeiss The sinks are communal.

Well, that’s not legal, so the school is entirely in the wrong. I can’t see that a teacher patrolling would make a great deal of difference in that case - your DGD’s privacy is still being disregarded.

If a girl is embarrassed by the sound of sanitary wrappers crinkling that is hardly the boys fault. Girls should be taught their periods are nothing to be embarrassed about.
Also it's nonsense to suggest a girl might come out of a toilet with blood on her hands. Why on earth would she? That's pretty disgusting - she should wipe it off with toilet paper before exiting the loo.

@PinkLegoBrick

If a girl is embarrassed by the sound of sanitary wrappers crinkling that is hardly the boys fault. Girls should be taught their periods are nothing to be embarrassed about. Also it's nonsense to suggest a girl might come out of a toilet with blood on her hands. Why on earth would she? That's pretty disgusting - she should wipe it off with toilet paper before exiting the loo.

So it’s the girl’s fault that she’s embarrassed but she’s disgusting for having period blood on her hands? You’ve basically said she shouldn’t be embarrassed but at the same time called her disgusting. Do you actually know what it’s like to have a heavy period, or any period? No amount of tissue gets all the blood off. Once you put your hands under the water tap, the water will turn pink.

It’s always the woman/girl’s fault if she feels harassed by men/boys. You’ve really got that victim blaming down pat, haven’t you?