Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

I know if this had happened when my DD was at school, she would have stopped drinking and dehydrated herself to avoid the loos. This is taking away girls dignity and for some girls, the right to an education.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I'm so sorry that happened to you.
You dont say where it took place, and nor should you, just wanted to add that there are literally hundreds of rapes reported at high schools each year. I suspect it's under reported and I find it terrifying.
I would really kick off if this was happening in a school my kids attended.

there is an advert on tv atm asking for donations to provide 'safe toilets' for girls in very poor parts of the world, it seems that these girls fear sharing toilets with males who are not part of their family for many and varied reasons, I expect they are revelling in the wonderful priviledge of being able to change sanpro, have wee or even a poo in peace, quiet and safety. I rest my case.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@FelicityPike I don't see an issue either![/quote]
You dont see an issue with a group of males banging on the Toilet door while you are having a wee?

Dh has shy wee, he can’t wee when im talking to him let alone if i was banging on the door and yelling

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@FelicityPike I don't see an issue either![/quote]
Really?
A 15 year old girl, having a heavy period in a school toilet, trying trying to clean herself up, with boys banging the door and shouting crude comments.
Don't see an issue?
I would have thought it was bleeding obvious to any female.

This child had a distressing incident in the toilets where she should feel safe. The school need to rectify this

This is the main point and I would suggest to the parent/s to put in writing to the school letter or e-mail. I've found this much more effective than phone calls over the years.

I struggled with heavy periods in secondary and that was bad enough with out any added drama- and boys at that age were very childish about periods. I also think such set ups would upset some boys like mine who'd also try and limit their usage - DS did at start of Y7 as the start of secondary as they have an odd setup open to corridor boys one side girls other bank of sinks in middle oddly hasn't seemed bothered my girls and I have asked them.

@june2007

I have worked in places with mixed toilets, and my experience at high it,ll just as likely be girls annoying other girls by loitering, banging on the doors, bullying.

Yes, but girls are more as risk from boys because of their sex.

I'd repost this in the Women's Right forum if I were you.

Toddlerteaplease
@FelicityPike I don't see an issue either!

Lucky you, I have lost count of how many times I had to retreat to a toilet to hide from some bloke that couldn't understand the word "No", when I worked at a pub in college many women did the same and I would follow them to let them know bloke they were hiding from had left or our bouncer would walk them to the taxi rank to ensure they were safe.

I suffered from period poverty growing up so missed a fair bit of school, mum died when I was eleven and I knew nothing about periods and had to navigate those issues myself and the thought of having to figure things out as a teenage boy was banging on the toilet door makes my skin crawl even now. Why is it so difficult for some to feel concern for young girls in our communities.

Pretty certain the guidance to have separate toilets for each bubble is only if it is practical to do so. Other solutions, like cleaning toilets more often, are also suggested. If a school has doubled the size of its bubbles using the toilets as an excuse I would think it was exactly that - an excuse so they can have larger bubbles. It isn’t a necessity driven my the toilet situation.

How frequently would they need to clean the toilets if the whole school is using them and who cleans them?

@june2007

I have worked in places with mixed toilets, and my experience at high it,ll just as likely be girls annoying other girls by loitering, banging on the doors, bullying.

Do you think that a) she never used the fmale only toilets before so would know what the general behaviour was , b) really can't tell the difference between the girls outside and boys making rude comments? and c) her eyes when she came out of the cubicle?

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out

So sorry for your DGD . It's bad enough using loos at school (I developed a cast-iron bladder and tried never to use them).

But this is what a lot of women (those awful feminists) have warned about.

This is why there are legal provisions in place for single-sex facilities. I get so cast down when I read this sort of stuff. It was like this 40 years ago when I was at school; it seems that sexist bullying and sexual harassment by boys of girls has got worse, not better.

Rufus the only reason posters like Felicity and Toddlertea don't see an issue is because women and girls are so low in their estimation that they are not worthy of respect and their feelings and desire for privacy and dignity are to be dismissed and sneered at. The mighty males must have excuses made about their behaviour with a dose of blame shifting whatabouttery and namalt deployed just to make it absolutely clear that women and girls are the lowest of the low and must accept that fact and not complain.

WTF is all this "girls behave just as badly as boys in toilets", implying that there doesn't need to be segregation because? what - females are just as bad? Awful attitude.

This is OUTRAGEOUS!!

I am shocked at the number of posters who “don’t see the issue” in teenage girls having to share loos with boys. Would you really be happy dealing with flooding while a group of men banged on the toilet door and made sexual comments ?
Should girls not be allowed dignity, privacy, a space away from boys ?
I know my dds would not use the loos if this happened to them. So then you have girls afraid to drink in case they need a wee, scared of their periods, it is just horrible and cruel.
Boys do not belong in loos with girls. I think the majority of boys probably feel the same. Imagine starting your periods in school and having to deal with that ?
Why are the feelings of girls so unimportant?

@june2007 bullying by other girls is one thing. Once you involve boys it can easily become sexual assault! Bathroom stalls are open top, someone can look down on you while you're naked! Or peek through the cracks.

I would immediately go to the school to complain or move my daughter to a different school. I find it unacceptable!

Pretty much what everyone else said, except to add that definitely don't follow the PP's helpful suggestion of encouraging your dgd to video in the toilets! That would make her the safeguarding risk!

Instead, get her to write a bullet point list of all the incidents so far, ideally with dates & times.

Eg: Monday first break, group of y10 boys banging on doors & asking girls inside for 'blow jobs'. Tuesday second break, y7 girl in tears because a group of boys were laughing at hearing her unwrap a tampon etc etc.

Keep it factual. Include direct quotations of obscene language or inappropriate comments.

Add a paragraph about effects on her - eg if she's been avoiding drinking water or asking to go during lessons to avoid the break time throng, or wanting not to go to school when on her period, etc etc.

Get your dd, as the concerned parent, to forward the list as an email to the safeguarding lead, the HT & probably the chair of governors. Everything in writing. Include a clear expectation of a prompt written response, & what you want to happen - toilets revert to single sex? Better supervision? Use the words 'safeguarding concern' prominently throughout.

Having said all that, it's almost certain it's a covid 'bubble' measure & the school is stuck with it. But at the very least they can't claim ignorance of the problems, & should do something about it - probably a prominent (& scary) teacher on duty outside the loos, a 'zero tolerance' same day exclusion policy for offenders, & making this policy crystal clear in assembly, tutor time etc.

I went through this at my school when they made us all use the same toilets when they were doing building work to the boys section. It was fucking horrendous. To all those "girls are worse!" deniers- no, no they're fucking not. Boys - laugh when they hear a pad being ripped open. "She's on the blog! Fucking gross! Do you think she gets turned on she she shoves a tampon up there? Hahahah!", or "stinks of fishy vag in here! Hahahaha!", or they would try and look under or over the stalls, it was fucking endless, not to mention their PISS everywhere, disgusting. I hated it, absolutely hated it, we had zero privacy.

You don't see the issue?

You hope that men you work with wouldn't do this sort of thing?

How are the boys doing this going to learn not to be the sort of men who don't do this if no one will have a fucking word with them because "not all men" "girls do it too" "it's never happened to me so I don't give a fuck if it's happening to others" blah blah.

And so these boys grow up thinking they can treat women like shit. But it's ok, not all men are like it and you don't care.

The law says single sex toilets for children 8 and over. School is breaking the law.

Separate cubicles are only compliant if walls and doors go floor to ceiling AND every cubicle has a hand basin and san bin in it.

Make a fuss. Look at similar threads in Feminism chat for how others have made schools do U turns on this very issue.

School will have girls truanting during their periods if they fail to provide privacy for them to manage changes etc.

Power to your elbow!

@FelicityPike "I don't see the issue" in response to someone describing an issue which has upset them has to be the stupidest, most insensitive and most sneery, belittling thing which gets posted on MN with depressing regularly.

When you post "I don't see the issue" in response to an OP like this, which is about about sexual harassment of a teenager, you are actually posting "I lack intelligence and more importantly I lack empathy and compassion and am proud of it, screw everyone not exactly identical to me, only I matter".

That is completely unreasonable.......

Re loos...Our City Library has Separate loos for men and women, but when I used it, a man walked out from one of the cubicles, zipping up!
It was quite disconcerting.

Teenage boys ought not be in the girl's loos..

@YouJustDoYou

I went through this at my school when they made us all use the same toilets when they were doing building work to the boys section. It was fucking horrendous. To all those "girls are worse!" deniers- no, no they're fucking not. Boys - laugh when they hear a pad being ripped open. "She's on the blog! Fucking gross! Do you think she gets turned on she she shoves a tampon up there? Hahahah!", or "stinks of fishy vag in here! Hahahaha!", or they would try and look under or over the stalls, it was fucking endless, not to mention their PISS everywhere, disgusting. I hated it, absolutely hated it, we had zero privacy.

Oh my goodness....This sounds horrendous. Who is raising these boys to be so disrespectful?..Beggars belief.

This information will hopefully help:

womansplaceuk.org/mixed-sex-toilets-ins-chools/

There must be no place for boys in girls' toilets. And as for the 'girls are just as bad' comments, shame on you.

Scotland has already sold women up the river, so using that country as an example of the future of school toilets is utterly depressing.