Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

I'm surprised at the rule though. In my daughter's school the girls and boys toilets are very close together, what's the reason for sharing?

It's because of having to isolate bubbles due to Covid.

The other option is that school has bigger bubbles so that they can keep single sex toilets but then there's a greater chance of the bubble bursting.

It doesn't really matter whether girls are just as bad or worse.

This child had a distressing incident in the toilets where she should feel safe. The school need to rectify this

Tell her to film it as she is in the loo.
Send a copy to you.
Then tell her to go see the Head.
To tell the Head to call you and get your DD to show the Head the Video.
Say to will post it to the Goveners unless they sort it.
Proof always works.

I went to an all girl school and know full well the antics of some girls in bathrooms but whilst humiliation was a component there is still an innate equality between women.

Boys pose a different risk and the granddaughters reaction is based on knowing this at a physiological level.

YANBU

Nothing wrong with it, IF they are supervised.

Forgetting personal concerns, kids of that age are supposed to be SD which would not afford an opportunity to loiter.

I think this is totally unacceptable Im afraid .Staff are being very remiss by not policing the loos as promised .Boys banging on the girls toilet doors is completely different to other girls doing it June 2007! It is more threatening and obviously sexist and quite nasty as well .I would keep DD at home for the moment until it is sorted out!

Judging by some of the comments on this thread lots of women would be happy to toilet themselves in a hole in the middle of a dual carriageway.

I like a bit of peace and quiet myself.

No because some of us have experience bullying in girls toilets at high school/ Some of us used to hang around them at breaks at muck about in them?

So not only do girls have to worry about other girls, but they have to worry about other boys aswell, which I think is a much more embarrassing and intimidating.

@PaleBlueMoonlight

Spot on, all those issues you mentioned are my and dds concerns too. There’s so many unforeseen scenarios that haven’t been thought through, or maybe they have and they’re indifferent.

How can a girl possibly feel comfortable struggling inside a closed cubicle, cut off from a friend who she might need assistance from, when all this mayhem from boys intent on causing upset is going on.

It’s so bloody wrong. This is her last year and I fear that unless this ridiculous set up is changed it will affect her massively.

Yanbu.
Agree, go to the governors, WTH are the school thinking?
What if a solo female was in the bathroom with 2 or more males? How intimidating would that be if they were messing around?
It can create some very worrying possibilities.

Felicity Pike Would you feel happy if this had happened to you then ?or your DD/Friend/Sister of course not! Is it any wonder many girls have time off School when they are on their periods? Most people would not be happy in the least with this behaviour , at work it would be seen as totally unacceptable which it bloody well is!

If a cubicle extends to floor and ceiling and is lockable how exactly is that distinguishable from a room?

In Scotland it has been decreed that new schools shall have unisex toilets.

@FelicityPike I don't see an issue either!

It's my belief people need to be kicking up as big a stink as possible in these circumstances, if possible banding together with other parents. It's totally unacceptable. It's a serious safeguarding issue and these schools are failing girls in their basic duty of care.

Face it, any lavatories that need 'policing' by staff are clearly not deemed safe by the school in the first place, otherwise such a system wouldn't be necessary. Sex is still a protected category by law, so that might be a second count on which what they are doing is questionable.

As the mother of a son, I don't want him growing up to think it's fine to expect women to cede over their sex-segregated spaces and to stampede through them without a thought for their dignity because ... masculine privilege. The day he turns 8 he'll be using the male changing rooms with his DF in accordance with swimming pool rules. IMO, the many mums who break this rule are raising their sons with entirely the wrong message.

My response would be to go to the media, the government, my MP, lawyers: anyone you can persuade to listen to you, and make as much racket as possible.

Not good enough.

PS. I was raped by two boys - one a peer, one aged 17 - when I was 15.

Under this system, my rapist would have been allowed in the same toilet as me. Unthinkable.

FelicityPike so you wouldn’t be happy if this happened to you as an adult, but you don’t care that it’s happening to a teenage girl, at an already awkward stage in her life?? Some people are unbelievable!! This is not okay on any level

From the age of 11 I was worried about other girls hearing the crinkling of a new sanitary pad I was opening. I’d be humiliated if boys heard. Boys, especially taller ones, can look over the toilet cubicle, maybe even climbing on to the toilet. They could look under the door too. I don’t feel safe in mixed toilets so it would be even worse for teens! Definitely email or phone the Head of Year and explain your concerns.

If a cubicle extends to floor and ceiling and is lockable how exactly is that distinguishable from a room?

Because it's within a toilet block with communal sinks, so not a room. They're cubicles with communal sinks behind a door from the public area.

If the school want to make things unisex then they need to have fully enclosed cubicles with a sink in them.

Well not all men are like that but I still don't want to share a toilet with men. It doesn't matter if girls are bad too.

I have a son, I will teach him to be respectful and not behave like a lout but I would still expect girls to object to sharing an intimate space with him. Ffs.

In my opinion this also puts the boys in a vulnerable position too. Just keep them seperate. Covid has become an excuse to be negligent.

That is a disgusting decison by school!

I know that lots of my friends that are muslim would have been kept of school for as long as it took for the school to change they're decison and even then some of those girls would be moved to another school because the school would have lost the trust of the parents.

It would also be a problem for some of my Muslim friends that are boys,they're parents would not have agreed with them sharing a toilet with girls.

Sadly lots of girls now have suffered abuse at the hands of a boy or man could you imagine making those girls share a toilet with boys and believe me lots of us were raped/abused as children and never told anyone so no one would have known why we would be terrified of using a mixed toilet,if I'd been forced to after what I'd been through I'm sure I would have been self harming ontop of the anorexia that I was already battling with!

Girls and Boys are different and there is nothing wrong with that and schools need to stop trying to be so fucking woke and respect those differences,girls have periods boys don't and girls are nearly 6 times more likely to have suffered sexual abuse of some kind than boys of the same ages!

If it was my DGD or DD I would be speaking to other parents and getting them on board,the more parents that complain the sooner the school will have to act!

Good Luck tarasharp and good luck to your DGD and DD on getting this sorted out.

This has presumably been caused by Covid and schools needing to isolate bubbles? If there are constraints caused by the building layout then the school are between a rock and a hard place.

Pretty certain the guidance to have separate toilets for each bubble is only if it is practical to do so. Other solutions, like cleaning toilets more often, are also suggested. If a school has doubled the size of its bubbles using the toilets as an excuse I would think it was exactly that - an excuse so they can have larger bubbles. It isn’t a necessity driven my the toilet situation.

Schools have a legal obligation to provide single sex toilets to students over 8 years old or unisex ones that meet the requirement of each toilet facility being in a lockable room. That hasn’t changed because of covid. However, these cubicles may meet that legal requirement. While the legislation says a lockable room it doesn’t specify that the sink be inside and it doesn’t specify how thick the walls have to be. Nevertheless, the behaviour is appalling and amounts to sexual discrimination (because of the unequal impact on the girls - being unable to Comfortably use the toilets because they are girls, which would not be the case if they were boys. Also, given the likely content of the shouting, probably sexual harassment too.

Terrible. Just illustrates the problem of non-segregated spaces especially with respect to teens.

For every story on here of girls worse than boys, I could bat back examples of boys worse than girls. I won't go into the offensive details of things I've seen teenage boys getting up to in toilets (I went to an inner city secondary modern back in the day and then taught in similar over 10 year period). To think anyone with any knowledge of teens would think mixed toilets is acceptable...beggars belief. To the posters that think it is totally acceptable if monitored by an adult - why should toilets monitored if there is no problem? Answer: Because obv there is a problem.