Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

I suggest when she is back in school and in the toilets she start filming from her side of the cubicle so that the boys comments are recorded and also the door gaps. As long as she only films inside the cubicle she will be fine. She then emails it to the head of year, head,chair or governors to show them what is going on,

There are regulations made in 1992 with regards to how single sex toilets. I would be emailing these regulations as well.

@EDSGFC

I do not believe for a second that girls behave as badly as boys.

From my experience at school and from my dds experience at school I would say that girls are as bad as boys with regards to bullying in the toilets, banging on doors, looking over the cubicles, chucking stuff over etc. The toilets were basically a no go zone because of the gang of girls that used to hang out there. Posters are complaining about the added element caused by a different sex doing it though but certainly my experience of girls only toilets was not the warm sisterhood that some on here are trying to portray

You must have went to a really shitty school. I left school well over 30 years ago and done girls may have been verbally cheeky in the toilets, it was only the boys that tried to sneak in and peer over the top, bang the doors and actively harass the girls while they were in the loo. They got short shift from the teachers when caught, unlike the useless waste of space that is supposed to be in charge of this 15yr olds school.

It’s the boys taking part in this sexual harassment, banging on doors with their bigger fists and being able to intimidate the girls because of their much bigger bodies, not girls. OP, sexual harassment is illegal and I would tell your daughter to point that out to the school, followed up by the threat of reporting to the police. Contrary to what some people believe, the law can still get involved in harassment that takes part on school premises.

You must have went to a really shitty school.

Maybe I did, but I'm not alone in my experience.

The behaviour of the girls in school has absolutely nothing to do with schools not fulfilling their legal obligation to provide single sex toilets over the age of 8 years old.

Girls bullying other girls whether inside or outside toilets is an entirely separate issue and one that should be dealt with by the school and parents. This doesn't alter the fact that girls have the right to single sex toilets and changing rooms for their safety, comfort, privacy and dignity and removing this right on the mantra of well girls can be as bad as boys is ludicrous.

If this was in peoples workplaces people would soon be up in arms about plastering it everywhere on SM. Although if they don't get any joy from the school, go for it is she can get proper evidence.

Just because they are minors shouldn't mean that their rights are ignored.

OP if you haven’t already, I would strongly recommend posting in feminism chat for advice on writing to the school about it.

If you search that section there have been a number of threads on similar situations and some very knowledgeable posters have info about the exact laws to quote.

In your shoes I would be contacting the head and if not addressed appropriately then to the governors and council, I would contact other parents to see if they would join me, I wouldn’t let it drop until it was resolved with proper single sex toilets as it is unacceptable to take away girls privacy and subject them to humiliation like this.

And those trying to diminish this girls experience by making it all about them and the idea that girls are just as bad should be ashamed of themselves.

What this girl has experienced is unacceptable, stop trying to pretend it isn’t.

Have some fucking empathy.

If you had been kicked and someone else came to you and said they had just been kicked too in a different scenario would you try to make out it doesn’t matter because it happened to you too? No, so don’t do that here.

What this girl has experienced is unacceptable, stop trying to pretend it isn’t

Made doubly worse when girls are also blamed fir every thing that happens ro them. So adults are forcing them into these situations and into having to ignore their internal warning systems , and when something happens as a result held responsible for it because they didn't leave or say anything or shout/scream loud enough.

Men at my work don't bang on the door and I am no longer a shy teenager. But I still do not want to use an unisex toilet with cublicles.

Maybe times have changed but I went to an all girls school and can hand on heart say I never experienced the kind of abuse a couple of PP are saying they did, nor did I perpetrate any. And we had our fair share of bullies.

Whose anecdata wins on this?

@Brandaris

And those trying to diminish this girls experience by making it all about them and the idea that girls are just as bad should be ashamed of themselves.

What this girl has experienced is unacceptable, stop trying to pretend it isn’t.

Have some fucking empathy.

If you had been kicked and someone else came to you and said they had just been kicked too in a different scenario would you try to make out it doesn’t matter because it happened to you too? No, so don’t do that here.

It's appalling isn't it, shows just how little girls and women matter that the experience of this girl could be just waved away with such callousness.

This is wrong on so many levels. My DD1 is 11 and has just started at high school. She’s nervous enough about using public toilets; if this were to be the set up at her school (thankfully it’s isn’t), then she just wouldn’t go to the toilet when at school, which could lead to bladder problems.

@JustHereWithMyPopcorn

Maybe times have changed but I went to an all girls school and can hand on heart say I never experienced the kind of abuse a couple of PP are saying they did, nor did I perpetrate any. And we had our fair share of bullies.

Whose anecdata wins on this?

Neither "wins". It's just a reflection of different experiences.

Neither "wins". It's just a reflection of different experiences.

Which have no bearing on the experience of the girl being discussed here or the need and right to single sex spaces.

@RedDogsBeg

Neither "wins". It's just a reflection of different experiences.

Which have no bearing on the experience of the girl being discussed here or the need and right to single sex spaces.

Ok. But if people are going to post blatantly untrue statements along the lines of girls don't do this then it's not unreasonable for people with a different experience to counter that.

I don't think boys and girls should have to share the toilets. I can see why some schools have had to do it, if the alternative is to create a bubble of multiple year groups though, but then they need to supervise them.

My disagreeing that girls don't bulky or intimidate other girls in the toilets isn't saying what's happening in the op is ok.

[quote FelicityPike]@parietal Use loo roll to remove the most of it and wash your hands when you leave the cubicle as normal? It’s only blood. I still don’t see the issue? Sorry.[/quote]

"It's only blood"

To a bunch of 15 year old boys? I'm sure they'd be the epitome of maturity, hand her the soap and a box of tampax they ran out to buy for her...

Complain about this.
The school need to tackle the poor behaviour not spout crap.

Secondary is where I learnt to tell males to fuck off and leave my body alone. THankfuck they weren't allowed in our toilets.
Back in the day we couldn't wear trousers. Used to get send home to change into a skirt because I wore trousers to step some fucking pervy teen stick his hand up my skirt.

The absolute piss some would take out of the girls for having their periods.
Bad enough trying to dodge some of them having a peek into the girls changing rooms.

Ridiculous that girls still have to put up with this shit in 2020.

Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend would probably be the best place to go for advice. I think they have template letters to use to challenge the school’s interpretation of the Equal Equalities Act. Many schools have been deliberately misled by Stonewall.

I wonder if people like FelicityPike actually live in the real world. Or did they grow up in a privileged bubble in an all girls school?

My disagreeing that girls don't bulky or intimidate other girls in the toilets isn't saying what's happening in the op is ok.

That the first time I've seen you acknowledge that what has happened to the girl in the op is not okay, and it still sounds as if you are applying the girls can be as bad as boys so just get on with it to deflect from the core issue.

The toilets at my child’s school are unisex and from what she’s said there aren’t any issues but they have floor to ceiling doors on all cubicles. I’ve never had any concerns about it but if my child had any issues I would of course raise it with the school.

In my own experience of school loos it’s just as likely to be girls being nasty and intimidating in there as it is boys.

@RedDogsBeg

My disagreeing that girls don't bulky or intimidate other girls in the toilets isn't saying what's happening in the op is ok.

That the first time I've seen you acknowledge that what has happened to the girl in the op is not okay, and it still sounds as if you are applying the girls can be as bad as boys so just get on with it to deflect from the core issue.

But my post wasn't addressing the op, it was responding to a specific point from another poster - that girls don't do this. My disagreeing with that specific point is not saying that what's happening in the op is ok.

I also said that whilst I can understand the difficulties schools are facing in isolating bubbles that they should make sure the toilets are supervised.

It's completely illegal and totally unnacceptable.

As parents and grandparents the way to challenge this is to complain and take our complaint as far as it can go. They can't ignore us all.

Personally I think it's being driven by those who were previously pushing transgender ideology before we all saw through it.

The government has put aside £££££££ to help schools adjust to covid. Why aren't they taking advantage of that to buy a few portacabin toilet blocks for each sex?! I get that some inner city schools don't have the space - but outside of London most tend to have plenty to spare.

We need a MN campaign.