Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

We need to just stay focused on girls' sex-based legal rights and ignore the derailments about behaviour. That's not what this is about.

The government has put aside £££££££ to help schools adjust to covid.

No they haven't. Schools haven't been given any extra money for this - that's what so many teachers are complaining about. No extra money for staff, equipment or cleaning, soap, hand sanitizer...

But my post wasn't addressing the op, it was responding to a specific point from another poster - that girls don't do this. My disagreeing with that specific point is not saying that what's happening in the op is ok.

I do hope you weren’t referring to me there EDSGF , I didn’t say girls don’t do this, I said I never witnessed it in 7 years at my school. You claim it happened at your school. Take a look at the actual statistics on how teenage girls are harassed by males in secondary school and stop trying to conflate the two scenarios.

Totally unacceptable. I would make a fuss, a fuss and another fuss until it’s sorted.

as a way of denying someone’s reality of poor behaviour by men in toilets.

^^
I totally agree that posters shouldn’t be doing this. The dgd has experienced problems with boys, caused by the desegregation of the toilets.

It’s also going to be much worse if boys are doing it than if girls are, isn’t it, because of the fact they are boys! Also they are bigger and louder come that age.

Girls hung out to dry again.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn

What bearing does the number of girls harassed by boys have to do with the number of girls harassed or bullied by girls? The existence of one does not cancel out the other. The fact that boys harrass girls doesn't mean that girls bullying is not harmful.

Disagreeing with someone who says they don't believe that girls do something isn't the same as justifying boys doing it.

It's terribly wrong. But you know Covid seems to trump basic human needs.

I'm sorry for your DGD, I wish I was there and I'd give them a piece of my mind.

@AGoatAteIt

The toilets at my child’s school are unisex and from what she’s said there aren’t any issues but they have floor to ceiling doors on all cubicles. I’ve never had any concerns about it but if my child had any issues I would of course raise it with the school.

In my own experience of school loos it’s just as likely to be girls being nasty and intimidating in there as it is boys.

Unless they have an enclosed sink and open out onto an open space, they’re breaking the law. The fact that YOU don’t know of any problems doesn’t change the fact that some girls will not feel comfortable sharing a space with boys. Naturally they’ll not speak out, because their concerns will be shut down or they’ll be accused of bigotry. Blame enough victims and the rest shut up.

Posters don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between bullying and sexual harassment.

As for the school saying they’re doing this because of Coivid, well they’re tucking up there too, since they’re not supervising the children. If they’re supposed to social distancing in schools, hows that happening if there are groups of boys banging toilet doors and getting close enough to upset the girls? The whole situation sounds like a shit show.

If the walls and door reach the top and bottom then it’s no different to most toilets in public places, including my place of work.
Anyone could bang on the door but they can’t climb under/over and sounds won’t travel.

And considering there is a higher chance that one of the school girls would have experienced sexual assault of some type by now, I am shocked about how many people are so blaze about the implications.

The school have an obligation to protect their pupils. Allowing students of the opposite sex so close to them when they are in a state of undress puts all those girls at risk.

I am not saying that all males are abusers, some of the worse I have come across has been female led.

I know one of my dd's wouldn't have minded, my other one would have refused to go to school and with valid reasons.

Could you also give her a whistle/rape alarm?

Maybe all the girls should and use them when they boys come in.

I would kick up one unholy row about girls being harassed by boys in tschool toilets. Written letter of complaint to the head teacher, copied to MP, describing exactly what's been going on, naming the offenders if possible, and detail the anxiety to menstrutaing girls.

I wonder if males and females on the school staff, are also sharing unisex toilet facilities.

If there are female-only toilets provided for the staff I'd advise my female child to use it.

@Whatwouldscullydo

The behaviour of the girls in school has absolutely nothing to do with schools not fulfilling their legal obligation to provide single sex toilets over the age of 8 years old.

Exactly.

@EDSGFC

JustHereWithMyPopcorn

What bearing does the number of girls harassed by boys have to do with the number of girls harassed or bullied by girls? The existence of one does not cancel out the other. The fact that boys harrass girls doesn't mean that girls bullying is not harmful.

Disagreeing with someone who says they don't believe that girls do something isn't the same as justifying boys doing it.

What girls do to other girls is entirely irrelevant.

For all those women who don't mind sharing toilets with men - did you know that one of the most searched and uploaded type of voyeur porn is that of toilets where cameras have been hidden? Women being the majority victim.

Have you not seen that indecent men have placed the camera of a phone pointed underneath cubicles in mixed sex spaces to record what's happening next to them?

I've had to report indecent teenage boys at the swimming pool because they were climbing to the top of the cubicles and looking over it lying on the floor looking under.

I know a man who loves to masturbate to the sounds of women urinating, defecating and dealing with menstruation. He used to sneak in. Mixed sex spaces are a gift for him.

Anyone of you could be a victim of voyeur porn and you might not even know it.

Single sex spaces matter. This teenage girl is entitled to it.

Check out the UN rights of the child too OP as well as the relevant legislation around single sex provision of loos.

To those claiming that 'girls are likely to cause as much trouble as boys', well .... possibly: the jury's out on that. However, regardless of who does what, girls should not be forced to share personal space with boys. The relative behaviour of said groups is irrelevant.

This is all part of the rollback of women's rights. If you don't like it – and face it, why would you? – make your voice heard.

I work in a school and we have had to do this to our toilets. I feel for the girls I really do. Our school are playing music in them to help with any noise. It's still not nice. We have devised a strict toilet duty for staff to help the students. My sons school was built 16 years ago with only unisex toilets

Christ, the whataboutery on this thread.

@Finewine1976

I work in a school and we have had to do this to our toilets. I feel for the girls I really do. Our school are playing music in them to help with any noise. It's still not nice. We have devised a strict toilet duty for staff to help the students. My sons school was built 16 years ago with only unisex toilets

Can I ask why did you have to do it in your school?

The government has put aside £££££££ to help schools adjust to covid. Why aren't they taking advantage of that to buy a few portacabin toilet blocks for each sex?!
Where have you read about all this extra money being given to schools to help them deal with covid?

@JulesJules

Christ, the whataboutery on this thread.

It's on every single thread with sexism and/or racism.

fine

Which set of loos was jt you did this too? The girls or the boys?

Have you made sure they are all fully equipped with sanitary bins and do they comply with the law regarding unisex toilets?

Do the boys have access to the boys still? Has the use of toilets effectively doubled fir boys whilst decreased for girls ?

[quote UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]@FelicityPike "I don't see the issue" in response to someone describing an issue which has upset them has to be the stupidest, most insensitive and most sneery, belittling thing which gets posted on MN with depressing regularly.

When you post "I don't see the issue" in response to an OP like this, which is about about sexual harassment of a teenager, you are actually posting "I lack intelligence and more importantly I lack empathy and compassion and am proud of it, screw everyone not exactly identical to me, only I matter".[/quote]
This.

dismissing people's concerns is a really shit thing to do.

At the new high school here the toilets are all unisex - individual little rooms that open out onto the corridors. They are still having to have a member of staff monitoring the main bank of them to stop kids banging on the doors.

Atm they have a member of staff monitoring to ensure each child is using the corresponding toilets allocated to their bubble.

The government has put aside £££££££ to help schools adjust to covid. Why aren't they taking advantage of that to buy a few portacabin toilet blocks for each sex?! I get that some inner city schools don't have the space - but outside of London most tend to have plenty to spare.

Schools haven't been given any money to adjust to covid.
Nor do they generally have "plenty" space.