Boys using the girls toilets.

[tarasharp]

Hi I’d just like people’s opinions on whether they think this is wrong. My granddaughter who’s 15 was upset yesterday because of the new system at school whereby the toilets are mixed. Apparently because of the way they’re all split into groups it’s the only way they can all use a toilet closer to them. My dgd knew of the changes during the holidays and worried about it, she knew the boys would cause problems, which they have.

The problem yesterday was the fact. that a group of boys were upsetting the girls by banging on the doors, shouting rude comments, and basically loitering doing their best to cause mayhem. My dgd suffers from very heavy periods and hated the fact that boys were immediately outside her cubicle whilst she sorted herself out.

My dd phoned the school to complain because there was supposed to be an undertaking that these toilets were monitored during break time and they weren’t. Do you all think this is wrong, and if so, is there any solution? Thanks in advance.

OP posts about an unpleasant thing that has actually happened, perpetrated by boys.

A slew of posters come on especially to say 'but x, y, z could happen - and that would be girls' fault!'

Fuck off. Twats.

More helpfully, well I think you had the helpful, factual, useful advice on page one. So yes to all that, good luck to you and I hope you and your dd get this sorted out, for your GD and all the other girls, pronto.

because NAMALT do not forget my dear the penis comes first always center the penis their wants and needs are more important This is because of covid, don't make it something else. Presumably in the same school there are girls now using the boys toilets, they aren't just going to be using the girls toilets are they. Girls need protecting from covid just as much as boys do.

The boys should behave, the school should supervise, the school can be criticised for not ensuring good behaviour but they shouldn't be criticised for doing their best to keep everyone safe from covid. I imagine no one wants covid spreading in the school and the school having to close.

@tarasharp
Schools must provide single sex toilets for children over the age of 8, its the law. There are two approved designs, single use and single sex. A single use toilets is a self contained cubicle with the sink inside, a sanitary waste bin, and floor to ceiling walls and door.
Single sex toilets are within an enclosed space which can have the sinks in a shared area, but must have a sanitary waste bin in each cubicle if the toilets are used by girls.

I put all the relevant info in a thread including a link to the standards schools must use;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/3959227-UK-toilets-showers-changing-legislation-reference-thread

@ancientgran

because NAMALT do not forget my dear the penis comes first always center the penis their wants and needs are more important This is because of covid, don't make it something else. Presumably in the same school there are girls now using the boys toilets, they aren't just going to be using the girls toilets are they. Girls need protecting from covid just as much as boys do.

The boys should behave, the school should supervise, the school can be criticised for not ensuring good behaviour but they shouldn't be criticised for doing their best to keep everyone safe from covid. I imagine no one wants covid spreading in the school and the school having to close.

Exactly.

My dd isn’t letting this go, but do you all think I as a grandparent, would be in order to send an email to the school. I would really appreciate any help with the wording?

@ancientgran

because NAMALT do not forget my dear the penis comes first always center the penis their wants and needs are more important This is because of covid, don't make it something else. Presumably in the same school there are girls now using the boys toilets, they aren't just going to be using the girls toilets are they. Girls need protecting from covid just as much as boys do.

The boys should behave, the school should supervise, the school can be criticised for not ensuring good behaviour but they shouldn't be criticised for doing their best to keep everyone safe from covid. I imagine no one wants covid spreading in the school and the school having to close.

Girls deserve to be protected from boys, for their dignity and safety. And the law says they must be. And the school absolutely should be criticised for not complying with the relevant legislation.

[quote UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]@FelicityPike "I don't see the issue" in response to someone describing an issue which has upset them has to be the stupidest, most insensitive and most sneery, belittling thing which gets posted on MN with depressing regularly.

When you post "I don't see the issue" in response to an OP like this, which is about about sexual harassment of a teenager, you are actually posting "I lack intelligence and more importantly I lack empathy and compassion and am proud of it, screw everyone not exactly identical to me, only I matter".[/quote]
Yep, I don't see the issue = I don't care about this girl or any other girls.

What a shameful attitude.

@tarasharp

My dd isn’t letting this go, but do you all think I as a grandparent, would be in order to send an email to the school. I would really appreciate any help with the wording?

Can I suggest you ask for help on the feminism talk section. You'll get some great advice on wording.

Not on at all. And not legal.

Unisex facilities are unsafe fir girls sorry if that hurts feelings but its true.

Be mad at the boys and men who make it that way and not the girls who want their own space.

Girls aren't there so your sons can prove their safety levels

The school can and must protect children's safety and dignity, at the same time as protecting them from Covid. It's a legal requirement. It's not either or. It's not a case of 'their best not being good enough, so what can you do?'; if it were, they would not have been able to open at all.

They are legally obliged to manage this properly.

After the belittling reply when your DD rang up I would be questioning why the toilets aren't being monitored when it was stated that they would be

@contrmary

Generally speaking girls behave just as badly as boys in toilets, and often worse. Maybe speak to the school and ask them to station a member of staff in there at all times, or at least outside and ensure that girls and boys go in at different times.

Evidence for this claim, please.

So do other year groups have it the other way round? As in girls having to use the boys toilet? I assume they must do or half the toilets would be crammed and the other half barely used.
IMO that would be much worse. Not many girls would feel comfortable walking past a boy using a urinal but what's the answer.
I did say complain and escalate but to what end? They can't magic more toilets up and even temporary ones would take time and cost money.
Staff member there is doable but do you just use female teachers as girls might feel uncomfortable with a male staff member outside? Or just male teachers incase boys feel the same? Obvious answer would be to mix it up but I bet some parents would complain about a man being present.
Am a bit baffled as to the schools thinking on this. Surely they foresaw this problem

I do not believe for a second that girls behave as badly as boys. I do not believe that it is as embarrassing for girls to be teased by other girls about periods if in fact they even do that which I never experienced. Putting all that aside the school is legally obliged to provide single sex facilities for female students so that they can deal with their periods in privacy with dignity. That is the bottom line.

@tarasharp

My dd isn’t letting this go, but do you all think I as a grandparent, would be in order to send an email to the school. I would really appreciate any help with the wording?

Yes I think you should, the more people who stand up for girls and their right to safety, privacy and dignity the better.

Keep it factual and point out the Law to them as lottiegarbanzo said, it's not either or.

No teacher likes toilet duty, but it is a necessary evil to ensure everyone feels safe. SLT need to pull their fingers out and make sure the duties are done properly

I do not believe for a second that girls behave as badly as boys.

From my experience at school and from my dds experience at school I would say that girls are as bad as boys with regards to bullying in the toilets, banging on doors, looking over the cubicles, chucking stuff over etc. The toilets were basically a no go zone because of the gang of girls that used to hang out there. Posters are complaining about the added element caused by a different sex doing it though but certainly my experience of girls only toilets was not the warm sisterhood that some on here are trying to portray

They were all girls though.

No need to make things worse by adding boys into the mix too.

Its a very common excuse used by people to bully girls into not having any boundries. Next you will be telling us that cos lesbians use the girls toilets and might look at girls that boys won't be doing any harm

@EDSGFC

I do not believe for a second that girls behave as badly as boys.

From my experience at school and from my dds experience at school I would say that girls are as bad as boys with regards to bullying in the toilets, banging on doors, looking over the cubicles, chucking stuff over etc. The toilets were basically a no go zone because of the gang of girls that used to hang out there. Posters are complaining about the added element caused by a different sex doing it though but certainly my experience of girls only toilets was not the warm sisterhood that some on here are trying to portray

What percentage of girls were sexually assaulted or spoken to in a sexually demeaning way in your girls only toiletsl

@EDSGFC

I do not believe for a second that girls behave as badly as boys.

From my experience at school and from my dds experience at school I would say that girls are as bad as boys with regards to bullying in the toilets, banging on doors, looking over the cubicles, chucking stuff over etc. The toilets were basically a no go zone because of the gang of girls that used to hang out there. Posters are complaining about the added element caused by a different sex doing it though but certainly my experience of girls only toilets was not the warm sisterhood that some on here are trying to portray

and the relevance of your post to the girl and issue described in the opening post is what, exactly? A way to minimise her experience and how it affected her and felt to her?

Your post is just another well, girls can be as bad so let's let off the boys and tell the girl in question to just suck it up and get on with it, no issue, nothing to see here. Yet again dismissal of the girl and her feelings.

How can anyone not see this as an issue?!

Just before Covid, I was out at a pub and being harassed by a man. I retreated to the toilet for a safe space to phone my friend. I dread to think what could have happened if he’d been allowed to follow me in. For those who don’t ‘see the issue’, would you be happy as an adult sharing the toilets with a man in the above circumstance?

With teenagers there’s the added element of ‘showing off’ to peers - so a group of boys making a big thing about harassing girls to entertain their friends. How can anyone be so dense to not see the problem?

What percentage of girls were sexually assaulted or spoken to in a sexually demeaning way in your girls only toiletsl

I acknowledged this fact by saying that this has the added component of different sexes.

And actually you'd need to define sexual assault - would you class looking at someone over the top of a toilet cubicle while they were using it as a sex crime? Presumably it's voyeurism? Or grabbing them intimately while they were washing their hands? Both of those happened regularly but this 40 years ago and no one really took it seriously then.

Certainly many girls just avoided using the toilets at school when I was a girl and the same with my daughter and her friends and that's recent.

and the relevance of your post to the girl and issue described in the opening post is what, exactly? A way to minimise her experience and how it affected her and felt to her?

No relevance to the ops post, simply responding to the person who said that girls don't engage in this sort of behaviour in the toilets - it's just not true.

Object to girls and boys using the same toilets but why do it by pretending that girls don't bulky?

It's irrelevant that girls in other schools behave badly. This thread is about a school where boys' behaviour in the mixed loos is a problem for the girls.