To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

Just to be clear I have two children, one with sen and one without.

I don’t know what kids have SN and what kids don’t in my children’s classes.

I think your OP is a bit - odd. Some of us “like” it and some don’t? It’s not something I’ve formed an opinion on.

I never think “oh goody! A kid with SN.” And I never think the opposite.

I just think that’s a bit mad.

Obviously over the years they’ve come home with chit chat and some names pop up whether that be Johnny shouting or Sheila throwing something (for example). But equally there are the stories of Jimmy getting a new nerf gun or Jane having a puppy.

It’s just every day school.

Maybe I don’t really understand your question! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Honestly? I feel for the parents, and feel for the child because of their (presumably) restricted life opportunities. That probably sounds patronising.
Selfishly, I see the child as an opportunity for my child to learn understanding, tolerance, awareness of her own good fortune, how to treat all other people equally.

My friend has a son of 13, developmentally he’s is 5 at best and this will not improve, he was attending a support unit within a school for primary and she had an anxious wait for his high school place at a SEN school, she was terrified he’d be put into a mainstream high school as she knew he’d be bullied/mocked. I know we like to think the best of kids but many are cruel and nasty and I agree I think mainstream would have been miserable for him.
He can now thrive in the correct setting rather than struggle in the wrong one.
Is your mainstream school support unit within a school or just a regular school?

It depends on what you mean by think about. I am sure everyone is glad he is getting an education and some of the children in his class with be his friend and others not as with all children.

I sent my children to selective private schools at 5 so although there are plenty of children with special needs at those schools they tend to be things like very high performing aspergers, some on ritalin I suppose but no one who has an IQ below 120 as a rough guess so they might have one arm or perhaps even be partially blind but no one who would change the fact the whole class works together at the same academic level.

I also only chose single sex schools as I wanted them only educated with people on the same sex too!

That does mean I think badly of boys when my girls are in the girls' school of course - it was just my choice and one reason have always worked full time even with 2 week old babies was to have move chance of exercising that choice of single sex schooling and academically selective schooling.

I think his needs should be met and if his parents and the practitioners who know him well agree his needs can be met in mainstream, that is where he should be. Whether he adds 'value' or is a drain on funds or whatever is irrelevant.

My eldest is outside mainstream, he was certainly a major disruption whilst inside it and I am sure other parents are glad he isn't around any more. But, and this often offends people, I don't care what those other families think. I wasn't there to champion their children and advocate for their children's rights, my priority was my son. I don't see why I have to consider the impact of his inclusion on their school experience- I am not responsible for their school experience and my son's needs should not have to play second fiddle to theirs. They are not asked to consider and care about the education of my son, why am I expected to care about that of their dc?

I can't comment as a mainstream parent, as my dd was similar to your dc, statement at 2, transferred to EHCP. But I went the other direction and fought for special school, as I actively didn't want mainstream.

As a SENCO, I would say that parents don't tend to think about any other children unless they are coming into contact with them or their child talks about them a lot.

@Xenia
I’m mystified as to the relevance of your comment other than to boast 🙄

For me, I don't even understand the language you have used in your first sentence because it's completely out my experience. (My DC are 1 and 4 )

My DC 4 has just started school and I have seen a special needs child (not sure if he is in her class or not) and the only thing that I thought was I wonder if my DC will understand that he is different, and how do I explain if asked. I also felt happy that she would experience being around someone with different needs so young.

My son has a friend with SEN. He also had 1:1 help from a support worker. It was all positive. Obviously every child is different but this child was in the class from age 4 and my son experienced him stripping off when he was young as he didn't want his clothes on and then his support worker getting him dressed. He witnessed him shouting out at inappropriate times and saying things that all the kids were thinking but daren't say.
We had him over for sleepovers and birthday parties and the kids adapted to include him.they have now gone off to different high schools.
So my feelings on it are that I'm grateful. I really believe that this boy being in my sons class added to the classes empathy, understanding, friendships and tolerance and didn't detract at all from their education.

The only time I've heard negative things about children with additional needs is if the child is violent and disrupting the class regularly. Needing additional help, not so much. Maybe the odd over entitled parent.

Generally, parents have no idea about the other children in the class.

• I feel for many and admire how some cope frankly
• when there has been incidents over the years at school my annoyance has been with the school for not meeting the child’s needs, for example my eldest was once hit in class by a child with autism. It was a bloody predictable situation that neither child should have been put in. I have never, if you are wondering, wished for the absence of SEN children. I think inclusion, when done well, benefits every child present for a wide range of reasons. I worded that in a way that tries to anticipate worries and answer them.

@OhCaptain I see what you mean re my post. I could have worded it better.

In saying "like" I mean see the value of mixing with people with send at an early age, getting the experience of differences in people and different needs. Hope that makes more sense?

The not like probably comes from personal experience. My older childs primary school was very academic and children with SEN which couldn't be met easily or were more obvious were pushed to other schools by about year 3. Those left were visably distanced and their parents also (not a very inclusive school). You could see it on the playground, it was obvious.i wonder if some parents take the view that these children in some way diminish their childs education/ school experience.

I guess I do think about SENmore than most because of my youngest son. J hope most sen parents do feel like you.

Probably is quite a bizarre post but I am curious.

I don't think any parent is gonna say 'I hate having SEN kids in my child's class' I do think people tend to gravitate towards the mums of their children's friends tho so (obv I don't know the extent of your child's SEN) if your child finds it more difficult to make friends or can be violent then the other children will prob only talk about them negatively if that makes sense? I look after a little girl who has some SEN and I've heard from other children that x is naughty. And one parent said that 'oh I hear her name all the time cos she keeps hitting y'

Surely it's all to do with effective behaviour management by the school? So if the child's additional needs aren't being met properly, then their behaviour may cause problems for others (eg lashing out physically in frustration, taking up disproportionate amounts of teacher time etc). I don't think most parents would have a strong opinion on it unless it causes issues for their own child. If a child has SEN and is well supported, they are just a member of the class like any other child.

There are children in my DC's class who are disruptive and have said unkind things, pushed him etc. If I am honest, I don't care if their behaviour is due to SEN or if they are NT and acting out because of traumatic home lives, poor parenting etc. My reaction is the same - try to teach my own DC to react properly (ignore, stay calm, tell a teacher). Then if the behaviour continues to be a problem, expect the school to deal with whatever is causing it (eg additional TA support if SEN).

Depends on needs/ behaviours. Generally I've always though inclusion was a good thing and important to society as a whole, however, my son (who is mildly dyslexic) was often on the SEN table and sometimes this meant he was next to violent kids or kids who spent a lot of time shrieking or shouting. I was not really happy about that situation although I didn't complain about it, maybe I should have done. It made for a very upsetting year for him and I don't think he learned much, plus he got hit quite a few times.

I think that life must be quite tough for some of them.

Sometimes I wish I could know more clearly what their needs are (obviously I know I can't) so I could talk to my dc about it. It was helpful to get a book about autism when dd1 was in a class with an autistic dc and was starting to say she didn't like sitting with her because she shouted a lot. Dd1 understanding more really helped their relationship.

I find it difficult to know how to be fair with invites to parties and similar. When the dc were little we invited dc in groups and included everyone. Now they are getting older and they want to invite just a few dc they rarely choose their peers with additional needs, but they aren't their main friends and they are only inviting a couple of dc. But then I worry about some dc never getting invited. I sometimes suggest invite particular peers over and the dc and normally happy to, but I don't want to micro manage their relationships either.

I often wish I knew more clearly what I can do that is helpful.

Judging from the screenshots I've seen of parents bitching about my autistic child in a secret class FB group I wasn't part of - not much.

I think most parents of NT/able bodied children like the idea of inclusive education in theory, but the minute their child is placed at even the slightest perceived disadvantage/inconvenience by the presence of disabled children, they are up in arms and think mainstream just isn't right for disabled children after all and why can't they just go to a special school yada yada. Or they complain because their precious poppets don't get as much 1-1 attention as the autistic child who gets a 1-1 TA.

I'm kind of bitter about it tbh. Probably not the best person to answer you!

Honestly, my one being at school with a child with complex SEN would be fairly obvious after a short time - the chat about what had happened that day, from playground drop off / pick-up, etc.

If child had the support s/he needed to achieve their potential, then it’d not concern me one way or the other. The child has as much right to be there as any other child does.

We have a child with a 1:1. I see the whole thing in a very positive way. The way the school finds ways for him to be part of every experience of a 'normal' child. The way he deals with it. The way his parents deal with it. I think it's something quite inspiring to witness. He started in reception with a walking frame which he no longer uses and he has defied every limitation his parents were warned of. Who wouldn't want to be witness to that?

I think that mainstream education is sometimes not the right place for a child with complex needs.
mainstream teaching and class size makes it difficult to make it right both for the child with additional needs and the other children and adults in the class.

I honestly don't have any views.
I drop my kids to school. I leave.
I pick them up. I leave.

I speak to the teacher about my kids. I leave.

I don't have any opinions or views outside of what my child is doing or what I need to do for them.

Until a classmate has negative interactions with their child/the class parents don't generally think ill of any child they don't know (I'd like to believe anyway). SEN is definitely not always the main factor.

@BoobsOnTheMoon

Judging from the screenshots I've seen of parents bitching about my autistic child in a secret class FB group I wasn't part of - not much.

I think most parents of NT/able bodied children like the idea of inclusive education in theory, but the minute their child is placed at even the slightest perceived disadvantage/inconvenience by the presence of disabled children, they are up in arms and think mainstream just isn't right for disabled children after all and why can't they just go to a special school yada yada. Or they complain because their precious poppets don't get as much 1-1 attention as the autistic child who gets a 1-1 TA.

I'm kind of bitter about it tbh. Probably not the best person to answer you!

Yes, exactly this.

well. Hmm, it is really hard.
I am an ex teacher, and I started teaching at about the same time that special schools were being dismantled in the area I taught in.

This is all about how well the SEN child is supported.
On a social level, I welcome all kids, and want my kids to mix with all kids and think it is great for us as a society that schools have a proper mix in them. It encourages tolerance and understanding (at primary school, I am less sure at secondary)

But in a classroom, I think most SEN kids do not get the suport they need or have their needs met well.
This has a direct impact on the rest of the class. I am also cynical enough to see that pushy parents end up with better diagnoses and support, while a quiet child with a mum who doens't understand the system slips through to end up at the end of primary having slipped through the net.

I remember really fondly my dd 'running' a 3 legged race with her classmate who used a walking frame (they won ) and the calm matter of fact way my dd's class helped one of theirs having an autistic melt down. But I don't think that these are common. These are the ideals which are rarely met.

The downside is my ds experience. 2 boys with very severe behaviour difficulties dominating the whole class. Teacher after teacher left, the dynamics of the class were horrendous, lots of subtle bullying went unnoticed in the face of these two who's behaviour took over everything. Both left at the end of year 5. One moved and the other to a Pupil referral unit. The class was transformed and year 6 was unrecognisable.

Or the year 1 class, in a tiny classroom, full to the brim, where LEA insisted they accepted another child, taking class to 31, which apparently isn't illegal in KS1 if the child comes with support. She needed a full time 1:1, at the school's cost. Then it turned out that actually she needed 2:1, at the school's cost, becuase her ECHP etc had never been processed, so they had to start from scratch. She was autistic, and had regular (several times a day) melt downs. Personally I cannot imagine why main stream was considered appropriate for her, other than there were no places left at the ASD unit.
The rest of the class were pretty badly effected by 2 extra adults and a screaming melt down in a tiny classroom. No, that isn't right for her or for the class.

My experience as a parent is connected to how well they are supported, but that isn't about my relationship with you, the other parent, but with the system.