To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

I certainly wasn't boasting. Working full time when you have a 2 week old baby and picking single sex primary selective private schools are just part of the discussion here - that all parents make individual choices in the best interests of their child as many have said above and I certainly have no problems with children with special needs being in a class with my children as long as of the same sex and having passed the academic selection test. I posted because no one had when I put mine up so I thought it would be helpful and supportive - that like most parents I have no problems with children with special needs in the class.

I used a term "high functioning" - I learn every day so do let me know what is now said - I meant someone who can pass an academic entrance test so is at the same kind of IQ standard as the rest of the class in selective state and private schools. High functioning it seems from above is not a term now used. Just tell me the current word and I am more than happy to use it.

Also fee paying primary schools are often used by parents who can afford fees for children with a wide range of issues.

@Xenia, you have all the self-knowledge and emotional intelligence of a shoebox. Both your lengthy, boastful posts on this thread have gone into enormous detail to assure the OP that you don't mind a child with SEN in your child's class because you have selected a school precisely on the grounds that it excludes, on academic grounds, children with an intellectual/learning disability, ie, you're happy with an amputee, as long as they don't drag the intellectual standard of the class down, because that is what you are paying for, after all.

If you genuinely think that you are being 'helpful and supportive' in explaining this to the OP, think again.

DS has just started school. I have no idea if there are any SEN children in his class.
If he makes friends with a child with additional needs, then it's his friend. If they came for tea then I'd make whatever adjustments the parent needed, assuming they'd tell me.
DH isn't NT, and I suspect that DS isn't but in a different way. Having a variety of children makes for a more diverse education and normalises differences.

@DominaShantotto that's pretty shocking that parents would behave that way, I'm glad the children had more sense. I like to think that how those parents behaved isn't "the norm" though.............I hope anyway

@SantaClaritaDiet

Yoiu just have to read threads on here with dcs who are getting physical etc.. because of their SEN to know that 1- parents dont like it

What parent could possibly "like" or even accept physical violence against their own child?

It simply is not acceptable for ANY child to be the victim of any violence - it's not about blaming the child or not but it's obvious parents will make a stand for violence and upset to stop. It's up to the school to put the correct measures in place.

Sorry @SantaClaritaDiet, I should have said 'any behaviour that might slightly annoying to little darling' which could include not getting social clues etc....

I am sure you got what I intended to say.

From these posts, it feels like for those with NT or non-SEN children in mainstream schools where it has been positive, that those children who are 'different' are used as little experiments to learn and practice valuing difference and empathy on. Yes, its great that there are children who will make a stand and be there as a friend for a person with additional needs. But this should be the norm. Its like when a partner says they help look after their kids. Its your duty as a human to treat others as you'd like to be treated. As some others have said, i too am bitter about how my sen child is treated in mainstream school

[quote SBTLove]@Xenia
I’m mystified as to the relevance of your comment other than to boast 🙄[/quote]
I think we are
A) expected to be impressed by her parenting choices including returning to work with a two week old (I am assuming, perhaps unfairly, that she left the baby at home)

B) impressed by her children's outstanding IQ

C) impressed by her gracious tolerance towards the many one armed and one eyed children in her children's schools who are not disrupting her children's elite experience by being thick.

I had to do the same @Someone9

Moved dd to a preschool and a was coming home covered in bruises where this boy was pinching and hitting her.

I had to move her again. Not because of the boy, but I felt the staff at the preschool weren’t doing their job properly to stop my dd from getting injured.

I think Xenia's point is that her children will never have to mix with those kind of SEN kids cos she went back to work when the kids were 2 weeks old.

Thank you for clarifying @SleepingStandingUp. I did think Xenia’s contribution was completely irrelevant to the discussion, but now I can see what she was hinting at 👍

I just feel sympathy for parents of special needs kids. It must be so tough

I think that's about right, @viques. Mind you, I've yet to encounter the Mn thread (it could be about traffic, Brexit, or meringue-making) into which @Xenia cannot shoehorn her return to work as soon as the placenta was delivered and her children's academically selective private education from the moment of birth.

@QuestionMarkNow

I think, and I think this thread has shown it a bit too, that most parents don't care unless it impacts their own child negatively.

what does it mean to affect their child negatively though? being hit is quite clear cut. But expecting their dcs to actually mix up and be kind to said child? Nope that doesnt happen either, even to the nice ones who don't have any 'behavioural' issues. It's all brushed under the carpet under the 'well they are not friends'.
I've seen it with a child with SEN in my onw dc class and with my dc too.

What they are talking about is that they are toerated because they don't cause problem. Not that they are accepted/not an issue/happy to be there.

I also think that a lot of the discourse about been happy for thier dcs to mix woth children with SN is a lot of posturing, the same way many people say they are not racist etc... whilst racism is endemic at all level in the uk.

There was a thread on here a few years ago by a mother who's child had SEN. He was truly heart broken because one of his classmates didn't want to walk to school with him. The poor lad sounded truly devastated.

It was because of his behaviours linked to his SEN

The start of the thread was full of sympathies and how awful it is and how children should be basically forced to be inclusive but as it progressed every post was in support of the little girl.
Her feelings and rights. She was uncomfortable at holding hands, she was uncomfortable at the close proximity that the boy got to speak to her and the unfortunate spit that came when he spoke.

So I guess that in that scenario who would I stand by. A devastated child who through no fault of their own is being excluded. Or my daughter.

@Xenia

Every post I read from you mentions private schooling and returning to work when your DC were young, last time you said 6 weeks, this time it’s 2 weeks.

It completely depends on how the school / parents / local authority handles it. I see the benefits of inclusive education, particularly in the circumstances you describe in which your child has the support he needs. However, in circumstances where a child needs, say, 30 hours of 1:1 support and has none, there are clear disadvantages. I know parents often have to fight incredibly hard for their children to have the support that they need in a mainstream school and often don’t get it and in those circumstances I think it is disadvantageous for everyone. I would never see the problem as being the child though, my problem would be with the school or the system, never the child.

My ds is currently being assessed for ASD. He’s nearly 10 and although I’ve always known something was up, only now have teachers realised. It’s because he seems almost normal, though he has a dreadful time at school due to overstimulation.

Can someone please tell me what terminology is acceptable, if I can’t say high functioning? I really want to be able to explain him to people (such as family, who wrote me off as undisciplined and/or neurotic ) and express what I’ve lived with for the last decade.

I am parent who has an SEN child and one without.

I will give my honest opinion and may get flamed for this. My child without SEN has had an awful lot of her education disrupted by SEN children in her class and this has had an impact on her education and also her emotional well-being. Before I moved her to a different school there were 3 SEN children in her class one of these did not have behavioural difficulties and so had zero impact on my daughter, however the 2 other children had severe behavioural difficulties and they should have not been in mainstream. They would regularly throw chairs around the classroom and the rest of the children would be removed from class whilst the child calmed down. My child was exposed to horrendous language and over sexualised behaviour for eg in the reading corner my DD was told to remove her knickers so a glue stick could be inserted into her anus as "grown ups" think this is fun. She was stabbed in the eye with a pencil (requiring stiches) she was physically attacked on numerous occasions and one occasion had large clumps of hair ripped from her head and another she was pushed off a climbing frame and fractured her skull.

The final straw was when she fractured her skull and the head teacher then told me that they could not remove the children from the school as they were under the care of social services and had an EHCP that states this was the best school for the children.

So my opinion is that children without severe behavioural difficulties that require extra educational support 100% should be in mainstream. However children with severe behavioural problems should not as it is far too disruptive and damaging to children who also attend.

@wizzywig

From these posts, it feels like for those with NT or non-SEN children in mainstream schools where it has been positive, that those children who are 'different' are used as little experiments to learn and practice valuing difference and empathy on. Yes, its great that there are children who will make a stand and be there as a friend for a person with additional needs. But this should be the norm. Its like when a partner says they help look after their kids. Its your duty as a human to treat others as you'd like to be treated. As some others have said, i too am bitter about how my sen child is treated in mainstream school

I think most interactions - in primary school especially are learning experiences for children that young. I'm sorry your child hasn't been treated well though, kids can be very cruel

@Haworthia

I think Xenia's point is that her children will never have to mix with those kind of SEN kids cos she went back to work when the kids were 2 weeks old.

Thank you for clarifying @SleepingStandingUp. I did think Xenia’s contribution was completely irrelevant to the discussion, but now I can see what she was hinting at 👍

I'm so glad to help even though I didn't go to a selective primary school. Went to a selective secondary tho 😁😉😉😁

@Xenia seems to miss the point that her kids not having SEN and thus being able to go to a school where they are protected from mixing with all but their fellow geniuses is chance not parenting. I do wonder what kind of adults come from such a sheltered life though.

With the exception of a girl with Down’s syndrome I have no idea which children in my dcs year have send.
Maybe because I don’t go in to volunteer and have never been a parent helper on a trip but I don’t think I’m unusually uninformed, I suspect most parents are similar.

@Xenia

You must see how often you get this information in? I mean you’re a bit of a legend on mumsnet for the way you manage to slide in (increasingly not so subtlety) fact you privately educated five children and returner to work after 2 weeks.

I have read it in multiple threads.

Might be worth you checking out the weight loss threads - that community may not be aware yet!

TeenPlusTwenties on the not encouraging friendships - this can be very complex! I do believe children should choose their own friends for one thing! The other thing though is anecdotal - my youngest (now 9) is has a few minor challenges himself (dyslexia and mild sensory issues and a slightly quirky personality) and has always been drawn to other outliers. His long term best friend (since preschool) didn't talk til he was 5 and went to a special needs unit for the first three years of schooling (I'm abroad and the system is different - children with specific learning disabilities which can be well supported with things like speech, physio and occupational therapy and very small classes are more likely to be together in preschool but go to intensive units for the start of primary and take three years to do years one and two with intensive support, then be filtered back into mainstream into year 3).

The boys have been best friends through being separated into different schools and now being in different years, and not living especially close together, even though everyone said they'd lose interest in one another.

I had to work so hard to persuade his mum to let him come to our house though, at first, and she took a year before she invited my ds over. It wasn't my house or D's honestly, we always have other kids over. She basically didn't think anyone else would be able to understand her little boy or take care of him.

Inexplicably D's has always "understood" what his friend is "saying" even when he didn't even have words his mum understood - telepathy or like mindedness maybe. When he finally started coming over it was clear that worries were groundless, and they've had countless sleepovers etc in the intervening years.
It was quite hard to persuade his mum to let them be real out of school best friends though!

[quote Decentsalnotime]@Xenia

You must see how often you get this information in? I mean you’re a bit of a legend on mumsnet for the way you manage to slide in (increasingly not so subtlety) fact you privately educated five children and returner to work after 2 weeks.

I have read it in multiple threads.

Might be worth you checking out the weight loss threads - that community may not be aware yet![/quote]

I think people are being a bit disingenuous claiming that surely 'no one' thinks anything bad, they don't even understand why the OP is asking, etc.

Not so long ago I was at a family event and talk turned to a SEN child one family member was working with. Other family members started up with 'does he really have problems or is he just a pain in the backside?', 'kids like that just need taking in hand', 'what about the other children?' etc etc.

While I freely admit that these family members' attitudes are abhorrent, I'm also sure they're not that uncommon.

Goodness thank you all for your responses. I think the thread has confirmed my thinking that possibly some of the parents would only bother if my son impacted their childs education and possibly some people do see the 121 as being unfair as their child without sen would benefit (benefit but not required to access education) and some just don't care.

For those that asked why we fought for mainstream; we wanted good communication and social models. My son would have been placed in a class with other non verbal/ limited communication (at reception so very young). The two local sen schools were mixed dx and used isolation rooms, doesn't have a good grasp of sensory needs etc the sen dx school was about an hr drive away which I didnt wanted do. He will be going to special high school. He has also made incredible progress.

Just for reference my son has 121 at all times on school grounds and 221 off school via section f on ehcp. Most of the funding doesn't come from school budget and the same amount would be taken if he had less needs. I can see how others would think it would all come from schools budget though and wondered if this would impact other parents thinking.

He's in year five now and I've never really cared or considered this before. I didnt want to ask in real life as I knew I may not like the answer. I caught the tail end of a conversation this morning. Deliberately, who knows? Probably likely and it got me thinking.

I am grateful for the replies, thank you

@MagMell

I think that's about right, *@viques. Mind you, I've yet to encounter the Mn thread (it could be about traffic, Brexit, or meringue-making) into which @Xenia* cannot shoehorn her return to work as soon as the placenta was delivered and her children's academically selective private education from the moment of birth.

I am a little worried about what would happen if one (or more) of the singly sexed children decide to transition. Not Zenias children, obviously they wouldn't dare do that to their mother, but another child, possibly even one with all its limbs and IQ intact who had previously not shown any tendency to deviate from the perfection a child associated with Zenias children should be achieving by following their example. It hardly bears thinking about.

[There is also the possibility that illness, an accident , or trauma could change everything, as it does to so many families, but that won't happen either because , well , because it can't.]