To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

There were a lot of children with sn at my dcs’ primary school. Dd had two boys in her class; all was good. She was friendly with one (parties etc) until the natural girls having nothing to do with boys yuck thing and vice versa came about at about 8.

I did slightly wonder about one girl who had global needs (forgive me if I have the wrong term) who had a one-to-one support worker and did not access any of the normal classes, nor assembly, PE, playtime... nothing. Just separation with one adult in a different room.. I think if I had been her parent I would have preferred another school setting.

To be completely honest I am just relieved it isn't my child with the SEN.

I have very little thought either way about SEN kids in DS's school. To be honest, I doubt I'd know who they actually were/are. Except his best friend, who is autistic. They've been friends since parent/toddler classes and his mum is a friend of mine from toddler group.

His friend was slow to speak and was under a speech therapist when they both started nursery. The nursery taught all the kids Makaton so that they could let the staff know if DS's friend indicated he needed the loo or a drink (hard to spot one child amongst a host of them sometimes). You'd never know the difference between their speech levels now. You do notice a slight 'immaturity' in certain situations and he is easily coerced into situations - so DS and his other friends protect him from that (just a quick 'not a good idea x' in his ear is usually enough). We've had people at DS's party make comments to us about his friend's 'childish' behaviour (he was about 9 at the time so duh for childish behaviour but there you go). We just came back with 'well, he's 9, that's the way he is and he's welcome in our house so...' - not my business to tell everyone about his autism but I won't stand by and hear the boy being pulled apart behind his back (or in front of his face to be honest).

DS and his friend did get invited to one girl's birthday party, his friend more at the behest of the girl's mum. DS was a friend of the girl and I think the mother felt bad about leaving his friend out. Except she said, at one point, 'I didn't want you here anyway, you're weird' because DS's friend was being a bit loud, nothing exceptional but he was chatting loudly. DS quietly turned to her and said 'and you're nasty'. I couldn't have been more proud!

The only issue I have with any child (SEN or not) in DS's class is if they disrupt DS from learning or are violent towards him. He's not a punch bag and he goes to school to learn. If the school handle an issue well, I honestly couldn't care less if a child is SEN or anything else. If they don't then I approach the school and talk to the teacher about my concerns and I expect something to be done to ensure DS is OK. I've had to do it once, to my knowledge the child wasn't SEN but I'd have approached the school regardless. My child's needs are my responsibility and I'll protect/nurture his potential to the best of my ability.

It doesn’t bother me at all, I feel for parents and the professionals involved. In a lot of cases mainstream school just isn’t the right environment for their needs and this is where is gets complicated with other parents I guess.

It’s not nice when your child is being injured or made upset by another child sen or not, it’s hard to rationalise it to a child.

There’s just not enough funding or support to go around sadly.

My DS went to a grammar. The school did assemblies on ASD and how to support other pupils who had it. DS’s class were told that one of the girls in the class had and ASD as the girl and her parents wanted the other pupils to know.

Some of the changes made for kids with ASD seem to help other pupils anyway.

@BringbackLetters Actually no, I've had that from parents face to face ever since dx & dla awarded.

@Willbob

Goodness thank you all for your responses. I think the thread has confirmed my thinking that possibly some of the parents would only bother if my son impacted their childs education and possibly some people do see the 121 as being unfair as their child without sen would benefit (benefit but not required to access education) and some just don't care.

For those that asked why we fought for mainstream; we wanted good communication and social models. My son would have been placed in a class with other non verbal/ limited communication (at reception so very young). The two local sen schools were mixed dx and used isolation rooms, doesn't have a good grasp of sensory needs etc the sen dx school was about an hr drive away which I didnt wanted do. He will be going to special high school. He has also made incredible progress.

Just for reference my son has 121 at all times on school grounds and 221 off school via section f on ehcp. Most of the funding doesn't come from school budget and the same amount would be taken if he had less needs. I can see how others would think it would all come from schools budget though and wondered if this would impact other parents thinking.

He's in year five now and I've never really cared or considered this before. I didnt want to ask in real life as I knew I may not like the answer. I caught the tail end of a conversation this morning. Deliberately, who knows? Probably likely and it got me thinking.

I am grateful for the replies, thank you

You have done the right thing, you have given your child exposure to the social and emotional advantages of mainstream, but are also ensuring that as he gets older he is given the support to develop not only his academic potential, to whatever level he can, but will also learn appropriately about increasing but supported independence, about social skills outside the classroom , about how to navigate other people's expectations of him, about personal care, all skills which special schools take in their stride but which don't often feature on mainstream secondary curriculums.

My DS who has special needs was in mainstream for primary. Most parents were very supportive of him being there. When he left in Y6 several parents told me that they were really glad that he’d been part of their child’s school experience as it had made them more aware and accepting of disabilities. I think the other kids in the class also benefited from the additional adult in the class (my sons 1:1).

Depends. Depends on the SEN child - how is it being managed by the school? (The sen issues I mean). How does it manifest? There's a high intake of SEN children in my children's school but there's no issues 99% of the time as we have a really good programme to help them, though on occasion frustrations can manifest as violence towards others but this is swiftly delt with

I think it depends on the SEN. My children have had a range of special needs kids in their classes and by a large it has been a positive experience. The 1:1 support actually benefits the rest of the class as sometimes they do small group work together with them. The only time it was a total nightmare was a child with ADHD whose needs could not be met by mainstream school. For three years they terrorised the other children, throwing chairs, kicking out one child's front teeth, punching the stomach of a pregnant teacher. They eventually were given a place at a special school and I think both their parents and the other parents were very relieved.

Another one who think it depends on the child.
There are quite a number of Sen kids in my sons class all with various needs which seem to be accommodated relatively easily.
One boy however has a diagnosis of SPD and is simply incredibly rough, He just doesn't know his own strength and can lash out easily and often at the other kids in the class.
He is incredibly tall and strong for his age which probably makes the issue worse, I do find myself secretly hoping each year that my very scrawny small over sensitive son isn't sitting near him.
Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

[quote Decentsalnotime]@Xenia

You must see how often you get this information in? I mean you’re a bit of a legend on mumsnet for the way you manage to slide in (increasingly not so subtlety) fact you privately educated five children and returner to work after 2 weeks.

I have read it in multiple threads.

Might be worth you checking out the weight loss threads - that community may not be aware yet![/quote]
I hang out on the weightloss threads and can confirm that I have no idea who Xenia is, and I didn't know that she privately educated her children. There is an untapped audience there then.

As long as all the children involved are having their needs met I wouldn’t have an opinion on it. If however a child with SEN was causing disruption or upset to my child I would be questioning the school on what they plan to do the address the situation.

It depends on the extra needs too. If the DC has outbursts the other DC may label them as bold.
DD has had a boy throughout school with down syndrome he is fantastic everyone loves his character.
A young girl with Autism and an LD in her class is excluded by students and parents.
As a parent of a DC with extra needs we do over think it.
We were all in a nice social distance line with our junior infants when an aeroplane flew over head then the church bell chimes DS lay on the ground holding his ears groaning so now they know on the first week who has extra needs.

As a parent my child’s safety and well-being is my priority. The vast majority of SEND children would have no impact on either of those things. Other children, without any additional need, also have to potential to pose risk to my child.

As a former teacher with experience in mainstream and SEND schools I have mixed opinions. The majority of my pupils with SEND have flourished in mainstream. But SEND covers a multitude of conditions and needs. I have yet to meet a child who has not accepted, supported, and loved their classmate with SEND and I have been moved to tears many times from the kindness of babes. From throwing sports day races, to convince a child they won, to feeding a child who was not feeding themselves (1:1 taken I’ll suddenly).

However, I have taught three children (mainstream) In my career who needed to be in special school. It was not in their best interests and it was not in the best interests of the child to keep them in mainstream school. Sometimes I would have gone as far as saying we could not safeguard the child.

For example, a reception child had complex needs and the developmental age of 0-11 months. He could not do anything independently and needed to be held constantly and rocked. He would cry like a small baby for the majority of time but when he was put down etc he would scream. When another child needed changing or help we would be down to one member of staff. Too many times the other children were struggling to learn their phonics over his screams. I couldn’t use my arms to gesture or do actions because he was in them. It wasn’t a case of stopping the session and picking it up later because he was always distressed. The poor children just zoned out from the noise new born crying is stressful, but his lungs were much bigger than those of a newborn. When I think of the facilities that could have been on offer to him in a special school my heart breaks for the poor lad.

OP, schools will not point out your child with additional needs to other parents. I really would recommend, if available in your area, a referral to Barbados child disability team

I think it very much depends on the SEN of the child. I think that children should be exposed to others with different needs, but not if it's detrimental to either the child in question or their classmates.
If the child is violent or taking teaching time away from my child, then I would question whether it was a suitable environment for them. If the child is not able to mix or form relationships with their peers, then maybe mainstream isn't the best place for them.
Of course, secondary schools throw a whole load more problems in for SEN children!
It should be on a case by case basis. Also, the child needs to be at the centre of any decisions. Some parents fight for their children to be in mainstream when they should be in specialist schools. I think that's a real shame for the children.

I don’t know yet if there are any kids with SEN in my daughters class, but I know there is a unit within the school which is highly regarded, and that attracts me to the school. I don’t know if any future DC could need it, and I want my children to understand that everyone, whether a diagnosis or not has unique characteristics and needs and to be welcoming of that. I don’t see how there would be much chance of that developing without close proximity and chance to get to know people with additional needs.

Dds primary school really messed this up. In reception and year 1, the year was split equally in half, so 50 dc, 25 per class. Each class had a teacher and a TA. there ended up with 4 dc with statements in the year. So in year 2, they split the year group 20:30 and they put the 4 Statemented dc in one class. 2 had 1-2-1, which were then shared between the 4. So 1 teacher, one class ta and 2 one to one TAs. By year 4, one of the SEN children with funding for support left and went to a specialised school, and as the school needed to save additional money, they did away with the class TA as there was already a ta in the class. By then there were 21dc, a teacher and the 1-2-1. The class really Struggled behaviour wise and it wasn’t the best experience and did cloud my view on the issue.
Change of head and dd2 had a completely different experience with a similar situation. All the SEN children had the support they needed and The school now ensure that SEN are split fairly across the classes (2 form entry). They’ve gone back to every class having a class TA and parents, including me, are far more accepting as we don’t feel our children are having to fight for the teachers attention (which is what was happening for dd1).

I guess it’s partly down to budgets though. If schools are properly funded, there wouldn’t be any issue, because there would be enough staff to support everyone who needed it as well as another support for the rest of the class. The shambles that is the current government, constantly underfunding education is the root of the problem at the moment.

My kids primary school was a relatively new build so it was able to accommodate children with physical disabilities which it did. It also accommodated several SN children too as the head teacher seemed to have a "we will find a way" attitude.

I think it's very important that SN children are included in mainstream education whilst it is possible (I know that things can change significantly as the children get older) as this should help sow the seeds of understanding and tolerance which will hopefully take root for life.

If I'm honest, when I see a child with SN I think mainly of the parents and how much harder their life must be in comparison to parents of NT children. I want their child to be happy and safe in their interactions with other children/adults as this must make their parents life easier.

Unfortunately my experience with a child with extreme special needs at my children's school is poor. The child should not be there. They have physical as well as mental development delays, they are capable of work that a nursery child would do and in no way can keep up with their peers. This child is treated like a doll by their friends. It isn't nice to see.

The parents are in complete denial and their child should and would benefit from a specialised school.

There are other children within the school with SEN and they 100% should be there, with the additional support and benefit from it.

There are many NT children who cause disruption in class. I assume people feel the same about their disruptions (or worse because they can choose not to). And I didn't think the "I went back to work when my babies were 2 weeks old" was a boast. I thought it was rather a sad post, equating money to love which it most definitely isn't.

I think schools quite often fail all the DCs involved. My DC was bullied and hurt regularly by a DC with SEN. The school refused to tell his parents or discipline him. His parents had also decided not to tell the DC his diagnosis but shared it with the other parents. Honestly, it was the worst of all worlds for everyone.
DC were being hurt. The DC with SEN couldn't be supported appropriately by his family because the school refused to communicate with them. The other children in the class were supposed to make allowances without having any reason or explanation for why it was ok for this child to hit but no-one else could even defend themselves.
None of this sounds like your DC's experience. Your DC seems to have had support in the classroom and the playground. That would have made a massive difference to the experiences in our school.
It's our job as parents to teach our DC's compassion. The reasoning of using SEN children to teach NT children empathy is very distasteful to me. We have children with SEN in our family. I would be appalled if they were being failed as badly as our school failed everyone.

I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction

This is a highly unusual thought process and I think possibly fairly unique to you.

Most people don’t give it any thought, other than at a macro, everyone deserves an education level, and only at a micro level if they know the child or parents. Liking it or not liking it really isn’t part of most folks thought process.

Boobs on the Moon and Houseplanted- I could have written your posts, they really resonated with me.
It's nice to hear that some parents here feel that kids with SN can have a positive effect on NT kids as this has not been my experience.
I had always encouraged my eldest children to be kind and understanding if friends and classmates had SN and they were, by and large. One used to help other classmates if they didn't quite understand a subject/part of a lesson. It's good for development, empathy, understanding and a great life skill.
Then I had a child with more than one SN- my eyes were opened. Like Houseplanted, I saw inclusion, love/support which gradually petered out to bullying and led to DC being ostracised by peers. At secondary school, it seems it's all about 'fitting in' and trying hard to be 'cool' and who wants to hang around with a kid with SN? and not just the kids- parents can be like this. Yes, I know pre-teens/teens can have difficulties and it can be hard for lots of kids. But downright nastiness? Bullying?
Complaints of ''holding my child back'' and ''X should be in a Special School''
As a mum of a DC with SN, life is a fight sometimes and a struggle. It's emotionally wearing. As well as horrible watching an unhappy DC who doesn't really understand, trying hard to make sense of it all.
to all who faced similar

Oh and blimey Xenia; lucky you, eh?