To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

I'm not sure I completely count as a "mainstream parent".
DS has some mild ADD and possibly Aspergers (we're on the waiting list to get that checked out).
He's low key struggling but he's never going to be anyones top priority for extra resources. (except for me obviously: He's my top priority always)
I couldn't be more delighted that his best friend at school has ADHD, attachment issues and behavioural problems.
DS gets to sit on a table with this kid and his TA.
Although the TA is not supposed to be helping DS...inevitably she will notice if he doesn't understand the task or hasn't noticed what the rest of the class are doing.
When DS got a fever at school..its was his friends TA who noticed and gave me a call.
Also DS is a head shorter, half a social class poorer and a whole lot weirder than the other kids. It does him no harm at all to be associated with the class "badass".
Sometimes he'll tell me that he and this kid were "in a fight" and I'll think "yeah mate..your pal was fighting....you were flailing about uselessly"

[quote SBTLove]@Xenia
I’m mystified as to the relevance of your comment other than to boast 🙄[/quote]

I'm mystified too!

God @BoobsOnTheMoon Although I’m quite aware of bitchy Facebook groups, I’m shocked that screenshots were sent to you. I’m not sure whether I would want to know or not.

I also think you’re right. I think some responses in this thread have been a wee bit obtuse - accusing the OP of asking a confusing question? I knew what she meant. Of course people aren’t going to be honest about their prejudices, but let’s not pretend that we don’t understand what she means.

In the interests of total honesty I will say that when my DD started Reception, I was concerned about one autistic boy, because I was worried that he’d be disruptive and violent.

But the joke’s on me because my DS is about to start Reception and he’s autistic, so the boot is very much on the other foot now

The main problem, AFAIK, is that the children with SEN aren’t given enough support throughout the school day, due to a lack of funding (no support during lunchtimes being a big problem) and that causes more disruption than if they were correctly supported in the first place.

There was a boy in my sons class who had a SNA in class with him, sometimes my son would come home home and complain about him because he could be quite rough and he was bigger than all the other boys, I did tell him to try to be more patient with him because he has special needs and tbf to my son he always was pretty empathetic. I felt bad for that boy sometimes because when they were younger I think he just found it more difficult to relate to and to socialise with the rest of the class.

They're all in secondary school now and he hangs around with my son and a big gang of other friends outside of school so imo him being in mainstream primary school, though I think it was difficult sometimes, helped him an awful lot

I wouldn't think about it at all, either negatively or positively, unless there was a specific incident involving my own child. In that case It would entirely depend on what had happened - for example, if my child had been physically harmed by the SN child I obviously wouldn't be too happy, but that wouldnt mean that I "disliked" the SN child, or thought that they shouldn't be there. I would probably just think that the school wasn't doing it's job properly, but then I'd think that the school can only work with the very limited resources that they have... basically I would end up blaming the government. Like I do for literally everything.

@FindingNeverland1 The trouble is you've got a quota of kids who can't cope in settings but they are only given the option of home educating or child being excluded so they can be referred to alternative provision.

In suprised you had to fight for mainstream. Most parents I know have to fight to get them out of there to a school which meets their needs!

If your child has 1:1 then that is being funded extra the school wont miss out. Unless you mean a ta in the class gives full 1:1.

But as a previous poster said I have far more to do with the parents of my childrens friends than other parents.

It varies and remember sn are homogeneous! My dd is autistic and was incredibly distressed by the violent bullying boys in her class who were diagnosed with adhd. I think there was a lot of resentment when dd was given a separate space and laptop to work, two of the "normal" kids parents said they wanted their kids taught separately from those boys too.

This particular school had a lot of adhd and autistic students due to the buildings being unsuitable for any physical disabilities, it's like they had to take a quota (the other high school was wheelchair accessible, has Braille signs throughout etc, new buildings!)

@Xenia is it actually possible for you to come on a thread and be supportive instead of bragging about how rich you are, how perfect your kids are, how you are so amazing and queen of the world.

also FYI we don't say 'high functioning' anymore!

I imagine most parents don't know unless the child is disruptive on a regular basis. Then they get cross at the disruption to their DCs. Not much empathy in those circumstances.

The thing is I think it's not a view of the children themselves, but yes, I have taken a view over whether a child's needs are being met in their educational setting or not, and about the impact on other children, including my own.

My DD went through primary with a boy with autism. He had various SEN including being unable to participate in assemblies or to eat with the other children. His needs were very much met by the school.

My DS attended the same schools and had a boy with autism in his class. This child was aggressive towards staff and other children every single day. He actually stabbed my child in the eye with scissors (he recovered following hospital treatment) and attacked other children to the point where they were hospitalised. I have to be honest and say I resented his presence in my son's class because of the constant threat of violence and the distractions.

I don't blame that child though - the school were either unwilling or unable to support him adequately.

I think it’s a shame that specialist schools have reduced.
I also think it must grate a bit if you have say for example 30 kids fighting for the attention of one teacher and a ta and a child getting one to one help just for them. It seems like an unequal use of resources. Those other 29 children might be able to reach their potential better with extra help too. But I realize that that is an over simplified scenario and prob doesn’t exactly work like that.
But I do like that they get to mix with different children. My son spends ages playing and writing stories with a friend in his after school club who has autism and I think it’s really good for both of them.

I think it depends largely on how the school deals with it. In primary DS wasin a class with a pupil who had a profound physical disability and also a child on the autistic spectrum. It was a positive experience for everybody and I think a lot of that was down to how the school behaved. DD is at a selective grammar and there is a child in her class on the autistic spectrum who is really disruptive. He shouts and screams of things that go his way and he gets very very excited so a disproportionate amount of time is spent on him. He does have a one-to-one LSA but according to other children in the class she is pretty ineffective. So yes being perfectly honest I’d rather he wasn’t in my DD’s class because he’s not adequately supported.

In all honestly, I don't care that much AS LONG AS it doesn't affect my own kids negatively. So it has nothing to do with SN as such, it's more the disruption in general that I wouldn't be happy with - and unlike the way it's portrayed on MN, not all children with SN are disruptive, and not all disruptive children have SN

All the kids have different strengths and weaknesses, it's not a big deal.

When there IS disruption, inappropriate or unruly behaviour, as the classes are already too crowded and the teaching staff can't get on with what they should to, then I am not happy about it.

There's inclusion, which applies to everyone, and there's disruption which is not acceptable. Mainstream AND kids with SN are equally disrupted and put at a disadvantage.

It's hard enough to give the best opportunity to any child, of course no one wants the class to be dragged behind because of someone, SEN or SEN- frankly that's a bit irrelevant for a parent. Our priority is and must be our own children, no one else has their back or is there for them!

I understand your post. I have sympathy for the child and parents.
My mum was a teacher and she always said it wasnt good for SEN kids to be in main school. They are always being pushed out of their comfort zones and being forced to deal with things they wouldnt. I think I agree with her. My friend has a child with special needs and I think her being in main school is more the parents unwillingness to accept that their child is 'different' and not about what's best for the child. When I see the compromises the rest of the class have to make it makes me sad as the NT children miss out. For example one child hated birthdays so on birthdays there was a white board for people to write happy birthday but no one could talk openly about it or sing or have cake. That's not fair on the NT kids.

I suppose it all depends on the severity of the SEN. Teacher friends are frustrated with aggressive students and they are very disruptive in class. I also feel sometimes why does a SEN child get so much 121 when a NT child doesnt? It doesnt seem fair as every child, SEN or not, would benefit from that much attention.

I have a child with mild SEN so I may think differently if I was told to send him to special school for dyslexia and at the end of the day the health of your child is largely out of your control and a SEN child could happen to anyone, as could a lotto win before anyone says I'm making a SEN child sound like a boobie prize. I have a SEN child and I would remove his issues in the blink of an eye if I could.

My child goes to nursery with a little girl who has Down syndrome, I don’t really think anything about her being in his class other than it’s good for her. I explained to my child in simple terms that she might find things more difficult than other children and to remind them to be extra kind to her. There’s no negative thoughts.

Depends on the child. My two went through primary with children in their classes who had various special needs. Possibly the boy with the most severe autism was loved by everyone. They tolerated his meltdowns because the staff explained why he felt overwhelmed by, say, bright lights and lots of noise. He was just the loveliest, most affectionate, child.

Another child with ADHD who threw scissors around the classroom and destroyed their artwork scared them a bit, though most of them seemed to get over it pretty quickly. I think as long as they can get on with their own work and teachers and other staff manage it well, most children are quite unbothered. And it probably is good for them to see that some children have challenges that make their lives more difficult.

Depending on the severity of the SEN, I do sometimes wonder why the parents have chosen mainstream school when in some cases it is clear that the child would be happier and better catered for at a school for children with their requirements. I do know that places can be hard to come by though.

Other than that, I mainly just admire the parents for the strength and resilience because it can’t be easy. I don’t really think of the children any differently to any other child in my DC’s class - obviously if it impacts on their behaviour I hear about the issues at home and worry if it affects my DC but otherwise they’re just another child in the class or my DC’s friend or whatever.

So short answer - I only notice children with SEN when they directly impact on my own DC.

I think this would be the answer for almost everyone.
Some people will always not want any children with SEN near their dc. But they're probably the sort of people who really think the teacher is there entirely to coo over their dc.

I see the argument that it's good for the NT children because it helps them realise people are different/empathise. I'm not sure I like that. It may well be true, but there's an aspect of an adult thinking that that makes me feel it's quite patronising.
A bit like a fictional character being given a pet to show how caring they are.

I think there are times when children with SEN do cause negative impact. And it isn't just they do or they don't. One of mine started school with a child who had complex issues, and in year R they frequently (at times more often once a week) had to evacuate the classroom because he was kicking off dangerously.
My specific child thought it was a bit of excitement in a boring school day. Never worried her at all, even when she was on the receiving end of a chair going through the air. There's nothing she likes better than a bit of drama to be involved in. (and she's still like that)
However I know there were other children in the form that would be in tears, not wanting to go in because they were scared, especially the day after a bad day.

So it's not as simple as people thinking one thing. It will depend on the child and also what your child's experience is.

I have 2 with extra needs due to physical medical.conditions.
In all honesty I like inclusion but behaviour issues that cause so much disruption need a better management plan than just allowing the behaviours.

I will hold my hands up and admit that I have wondered about why a parent chooses mainstream when, to my uneducated mind, special needs schools exist specifically for children so they don’t face difficulties in mainstream schools.

More often than not the local authority forces them to “try mainstream” because it’s cheaper than a place at a specialist school. Or outright refuses a specialist school place so it’s mainstream or nothing. It’s naive to think it’s parental choice (although of course in some cases it is).

Also, there’s a huge gap in provision for, in particular, kids with SEN but no learning issues. Some children are simply too autistic for mainstream but too academic for specialist schools. Where do they go?

I'm glad my child is in a SEN school tbh ,I don't want him to be a learning experience so that other children can learn acceptance and empathy ,I have heard some awful experience,s from parents who have children with disabilities being illegally excluded etc in mainstream schools

My perspective is different, as someone who works in SEN (at a specialist school) and as parent of kids with ASN who attend mainstream. I also have a NT child.

For my NT DC I absolutely LOVE that they have children with ASN in their class. It's a good opportunity for us to talk about different people, their different needs and how being different isn't a bad thing. My DC now sees kids with ASN as just kids, it's not scary or unapproachable. They're also encouraged (by us) to help in appropriate situations and offer friendship if they're being left out. I appreciate that our perspective on ASN is different though given my job and DC's siblings needs, they've already been exposed to ASN in other aspects of their lives.

One of my ASN DC attends mainstream at our insistence. They're surrounded by kids who look out for and encourage my DC. We've had zero issues with bullying or anything like that, just kindness and empathy. It's been wonderful. We've got 3 more years at primary, I hope it continues to be a positive experience for my DC.

At work we had children doing split placements between our specialist provision and mainstream. I think the children with ASN get a lot out of those opportunities and hope the others in their mainstream classes do too. We can't have any split placements this term due to Covid and it's definitely a loss.

It was very positive for one of mine. Very troubled little girl in the class, family breakdown, foster placements galore and some disruptive behaviour. My child was regarded as a calming influence and would sometimes be sent out of class with this little girl to calm her down. Now I could have worried about the class time my child was missing but they were bright and it didn't seem a problem. They got a weekend job in a care home at 16, trained as a nurse for mental health and are now in a senior position.

I often wonder if they hadn't had that early experience and realised how to help that little girl what career they might have had and would it have been as valuable and rewarding as the career they have.

So I have a positive view as long as other children are subjected to violence and I do know schools are struggling with financing suitable support for all children.

It depends on whether the school is invested in meeting every child’s needs I don’t think inclusion of for every child as some ‘included’ in mainstream become more isolated than they would in a specialist provision. I asked a fair bit about inclusion before my eldest started because I think it shows the school ethos to adapting to individual needs. My first child is highly anxious and the school he is at is very supportive. Some parents have been very negative about one of the children in his class with SEN but apart from some low level aggression he has settled well after the initial ups and downs due to the support the school have given. His situation is compounded by serious social issues. I explained to my child that the child in question needed a bit of extra support and was still learning how to behave and communicate with other children and he accepted that. I do think it’s an advantage to be used to people having different needs from a young age.