DH called my son a prick.

[Wishforyou]

In most ways DH is a supportive loving husband and a good stepfather to my two children and he has been now for the last 8 years.
However, his tolerance levels are low. He really yells when my DS who is 11, talks back or refuses to tidy his room etc. Yesterday during one of these exchanges he swore three times, I forget all of the words, there was a f*ck in there somewhere but he called my son a prick. He’s also called him a brat and various other things in the past. It seems to be a temper that isn’t under control. He has never hit any of us and wouldn’t. He’s spent a lot of money and time getting my son’s bedroom decorated recently, he’s invested in all of us.
But calling my son a prick no matter how pre-teeny he is being isn’t ok with me. I didn’t say much yesterday, apart from he should be modelling behaviour that he wants my son to adopt. I.e. not peppering his language with swear words.
Afterwards he said sorry and apologised to my son but he has done before and it always happens again.
Do I take his further and suggest he get help or move on? Is this normal on an occasional basis? Apart from my wonderful recently
deceased father, I haven’t had the best male experiences. A bi-polar angry stepfather and an emotionally abusive father to my kids. I don’t want to overreact but...

A bit gobsmacked at the number of people who think it's ok to call their kids a prick. Seriously? What's wrong with telling them their behaviour is out of order? This is not a teen, he's 11.
OP, there are very few children who are just "bad", you know this, the school are doing their best to help your child and all their good work is being undermined at home. Your son does not feel safe and secure at home. Your partner tells you he's only gone too far twice, but you know it's much more than this. So are you going to carry on doing nothing, wringing your hands, or are you going to protect your child?

Sons not sobs.🙄

@differentnameforthis

As someone who is still struggling with low self esteem decades after an abusive childhood I wish I could 'like' your post.

He already feels threatened and defensive and your son is only 11, as your son gets older he will find his presence more and more challenging and will seek to crush him because he won't be able to tolerate the presence of another near adult man in his territory

Your son is 11 and this dynamic will get worse. It did with my sister and her DP, as her eldest DS got older it was almost as the step father saw him as a challenge to his 'spot' as man of the house. belittled him, mocked him, constantly telling my sister that her DS was taking the mick and she wasnt disciplining him right. She didnt support her DS, her DS behaviour got worse as he got older and the cycle continued. Her DS left home at 16 and hasnt spoken to his mother since. If this doesnt stop your DS will likely move to his dads.

Your DS may be pushing boundaries as is normal when entering puberty and starting high school- your DS at age 11 is not a prick.

Why did your DH go out and have a go at your son again? Had you already spoken to him at that point? Was this after he apologised.

For what its worth, if your son had just been rude / bratty (albeit not warranting being called a prick), given he has wanted to mow the lawn, you allowing him to do it was effectively a reward for his behaviour and you undermined your DH.

[quote Wishforyou]@AryaStarkWolf I have one who’s angelic and one who’s challenging. 🧐

@StarUtopia he still sees his biological dad, so no, we don’t call him ‘our’ son. But in all others ways he jointly parents. Some people are suggesting that I discipline alone going forward. I think this isn’t a bad idea actually.

@LovelyLovelyMe
I tell him his behaviour isn’t acceptable. I use distraction “oh i would love it if you help me with chopping the veg” (he loves to be involved). yesterday after this incident, I had got him mowing the lawn because he’s been desperate to do it, seeing it as a grown up thing to do. So I taught him how to start the mower, line up the rows etc. It was all going brilliantly and then my DH went out to have another pop at him.
I take him on long bike rides to get rid of his nervous energy, I do breathing exercises with him. He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience which is where a lot of the backchat comes from. A feeling of low self-worth. I tell him he’s beautiful, thoughtful (he is) and a fount of all knowledge (he loves facts) and pray that one day, it will all be okay. It’s been a painful, long journey. But I do think his behaviour and resilience are improving. He has so much going for him if only...has been the resounding sentence from his teachers throughout his life...I’m trying.[/quote]
‘...and then my DH went out and had another pop at him.’

Keep re reading this short segment of your post, OP. Now think how that feels as an 11 year old who is out mowing the lawn, probably feeling really chuffed that he is doing a good job.

It is really very sad and a sure fire way to rip apart a young person’s self esteem. Yes he is challenging, but so are the vast majority of pre teens.

I've got a hell of a temper that I struggle to control, I've also got a 12 year old daughter who at moment, could politely be referred to as a prick.

And yet, somehow, I've never called her that, and she or my partner have no idea what my temper is like. Because I'm an adult, and I learnt years ago to control it.

Protect your child. A child can be disiplined without resorting to shouting or name calling

Nice people do not shout and bully children..especially those that need counselling/support at school...
I'm not saying he has to be a Saint...but he went after him into the garden.....

You really need to have your sons back but it seems like your happier to make excuses for an 'angry' man...what's going tk happen as the teenager years kick in...and more defiance and 'gobbiness' and god forbid the golden well behaved child misbehaves or does he just shout at boys?

I think I would be looking parenting courses for both of you because uou can't live in a house with split roles all the time that's not fair on anyone as the dc will push back on that

He should be ashamed but also needs to change..not run away from his responsibility to keep his temper

I used to have real problems with a short temper (unsurprisingly, it was probably because I was raised by a father who was extremely short-tempered and almost always angry). When my kids were difficult tantrummy toddlers and I was sleep deprived and just angry a lot, I lashed out at them a few times. I felt so guilty afterwards. Any adult who DOESN'T feel guilty about lashing out and being horrible to a child, you should be concerned about. And keeping away from your kids. Also I saw that the pattern was just going to repeat if I went on like that.

So I got therapy and professional help to control my anger and things got so much better. I did that because I accepted I had a problem and wanted to be a better parent to my children. If your DH doesn't want the same, then that's a big problem. If he can't admit that it's wrong and that he should be doing everything he can to stop (and by that I don't mean just saying "oh yeah I was wrong, I won't do it again" and then doing it again a week later. Trust me, I've been there, nothing changes) then you need to do what's best for your children, which means leaving him.

OP the advice you are getting here from some people is careless at best and damagingly hysterical at worst. You should not pit your son against your husband. Presumably, you believe your domestic setup has legs and is built to last or you want it to last. If your son feels like he can get away with bad behaviour with either adult or if your husband feels like he can’t take part in normal parenthood such as disciplining a child he has taken on than you are creating bigger problems for yourself.
Now, calling your son names gets your husband nowhere and he is being quite immature himself, but not abusive. You have to address your sons behaviour immediately or you will be next in the line of fire. At the same time you should talk with your husband to back off a little as the second parent but excluding him by asking him not to parent is not good. Presumably he is good to enough to do the parts of the parenting that suit you and your son i.e spend money on him, but not the disciplining him?

OP does careful thoughtful considered work to help her son, she takes time to show him that he's important.
Her partner crushes and humiliates him in an instant.
he is such a weak character that he feels threatened by an 11-year old, he's working to crush him already so that he never gets to be that confident secure adult man who might usurp him

@kirinm certainly not abuse but that would depend on really how frequently this is happening

@Wishforyou said He said it’s been twice in eight years and I said I’ve picked him up way more times than that on name calling. It happens a few times a month. It was just worse and louder yesterday

A few times a month. This poor child gets berated, and named called A FEW TIMES A MONTH, with escalation... and some are condoning it.

Op, you have to admit, that while your son may not be in therapy because of your husbands behaviour, it is certainly keeping him there, no?

You left your abuser, and replaced him with your son's abuser. There is no way that anyone here would advocate you staying with your abuser.

The reason he didn’t want a long conversation by the way is because he’s ashamed of himself Of course he is... that's why he keeps doing it.

It does nothing to minimise "real" abuse, because it IS real abuse. It leaves scars and it hurts, and it damages people and their self esteem. It would be abuse if someone was doing it to their partner, and it is if it's an adult doing it to their kids.

Would you not think it’s even more damaging to let them carry on without telling them they are acting like a prick and would be best placed to have a long hard think about it? I’ve done this to my DH over the years when required and they have done it to me when required. I’m glad to have this pointed out if necessary to pull me up and give a chance to really think and reflect. That’s not abuse. On the super rare occasion we have probably even told each other that you are acting like a complete and utter cunt. And it’s been the truth. Either he has or I had and it’s best to be called out. Must admit in 25 years I’ve only ever said that to a kid once and they really were acting like a complete cunt and really needed to stop. Sometimes people need to hear thus. That’s not abuse.

Unfortunately my former work meant I had the displeasure of dealing with many parents and kids in stressful situations over the years and yes, some parents would call their kids pricks or indeed cunts in situations where it was completely inappropriate, unwarranted and abusive. There is a definite difference in scenarios.

OP after 8 years, you and your DH should be parenting your children together. Asking your DH not to discipline your son at all is not the way to go if you are to treat all the children as children of the household (not as yours, and not his).

It's not clear what you are doing to properly discipline your son, however you and your DH need to sit down and agree on the strategy and stick to it. Your son is only 11, and there could be many more challenging times ahead as he goes through the teen years. Working against each other (it appears you undermined your DH with allowing your DS the lawn mowing after bad behaviour) will likely end up in the two of you splitting up. If you don't want that to happen in the near future, you need to address it now.

I take him on long bike rides to get rid of his nervous energy, I do breathing exercises with him. He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience

And then your DH shouts at him and calls him a prick. An 11 year old.

I know you won't leave him over this, but you need to take a stronger line. Don't just murmur "too far" from the sidelines. You parent your ds the way you see fit. He backs you up in a calm way. If he gets wound up, he goes out for a walk or a drive. But the screaming has to stop. If nothing changes in the dynamic between them it will get worse when he hits his teen years.

You seem to have drawn a line around him not yet hitting you, but in actual fact, being verbally abusive to your child is just as bad.

“do you support this appalling behaviour then? He’s disrespectful to you and me and ungrateful etc etc”
Response: ‘Of course I don’t, I wouldn’t be telling you to stop swearing at him if I supported your appalling behaviour. You’re an adult, act like one.’
Obviously lots of great things said but if he can’t help himself again don’t let that go by you.

Be prepared for ss to get involved op. Back to school will give ds a chance to find someone to fight his corner...
It should bloody well be you op.

I tell him his behaviour isn’t acceptable. I use distraction “oh i would love it if you help me with chopping the veg” (he loves to be involved). yesterday after this incident, I had got him mowing the lawn because he’s been desperate to do it, seeing it as a grown up thing to do. So I taught him how to start the mower, line up the rows etc. It was all going brilliantly and then my DH went out to have another pop at him.
I take him on long bike rides to get rid of his nervous energy, I do breathing exercises with him. He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience which is where a lot of the backchat comes from. A feeling of low self-worth. I tell him he’s beautiful, thoughtful (he is) and a fount of all knowledge (he loves facts) and pray that one day, it will all be okay. It’s been a painful, long journey. But I do think his behaviour and resilience are improving. He has so much going for him if only...has been the resounding sentence from his teachers throughout his life...I’m trying.

OP I'm not defending your husband. That is not the way to behave towards an 11 year old. But this part of one of your posts does make me think that there is another side to this.

Because you perceive low self esteem and possibly ADHD, you are trying to build him up emotionally. No problem with that. But what you've written suggests that maybe you also go too far the other way. He seems to be rewarded for his bad behaviour because you distract him by suggesting doing the things he likes to do.

He obviously gets a lot of your time and attention. What about his sister? Does she get the same?

He wanted to do the lawn - so you spent a lot of time with him, explaining how to do it and then letting him get on with it. Did you precede it with 'tidy your room and then I'll show you how to mow the lawn'? You praise him for being beautiful, thoughtful and knowledgeable - does he now have the impression that he's the apple of your eye and can do no wrong? You say you tell him his behaviour is unacceptable, but are there consequences or do you move on to do something he wants to do as a 'distraction'? I'm not suggesting you beat him with a stick, but are there actions as well as words?

He needs boundaries. And maybe he's being gobby and chats back because with you he gets away with it. Maybe you let him to compensate for your DH's behaviour, or because you believe that you are doing the right thing to build up his confidence. But there is a middle ground that leaves DS in no doubt that some of his behaviour is unacceptable, and that it won't just be smoothed over or rewarded.

[quote sunflower1022]@differentnameforthis

As someone who is still struggling with low self esteem decades after an abusive childhood I wish I could 'like' your post.[/quote]
I am SO sorry you lived that @sunflower1022. It is very hard when people minimise what you went through as a child, and had no control over.

@frumpety

The DS isn't "pushing" anyone's "buttons" he is being a typical kid, with suspected SN (according to op)

And doesn't deserve to be abused for it.

I think that lots of people get to a stage of having a frayed temper when trying to deal with a so called brat of a child, and so go forth with angry words towards them, and although not perfect behaviour, it is what can happen in a moment of being angry about something.

YABVU for not dumping your DH sooner, how many years has he been really yelling at your DS?

Ffs I despair.

@sst1234 Now, calling your son names gets your husband nowhere and he is being quite immature himself, but not abusive

Wrong.

You have to address your sons behaviour immediately or you will be next in the line of fire. And here it is... control your son op or you will be your husbands next victim. When in fact, I wonder how much your son would grow if he wasn't living under the same roof as an abusive step father.

Oh and sst1234, here are some signs of emotional abuse: link

Yelling or swearing (read about Emotional Bullying and How to Deal with an Emotional Bully)
Name calling or insults; mocking
Threats and intimidation
Ignoring or excluding
Isolating
Humiliating
Denial of the abuse and blaming of the victim

@HoppingPavlova He didn't tell him he was "acting like" a prick..he called him a prick. It is VERY different.

@1forAll74

I think that lots of people get to a stage of having a frayed temper when trying to deal with a so called brat of a child, and so go forth with angry words towards them, and although not perfect behaviour, it is what can happen in a moment of being angry about something.

This was NOT angry words. Calling a child names is abusive behaviour.