DH called my son a prick.

[Wishforyou]

In most ways DH is a supportive loving husband and a good stepfather to my two children and he has been now for the last 8 years.
However, his tolerance levels are low. He really yells when my DS who is 11, talks back or refuses to tidy his room etc. Yesterday during one of these exchanges he swore three times, I forget all of the words, there was a f*ck in there somewhere but he called my son a prick. He’s also called him a brat and various other things in the past. It seems to be a temper that isn’t under control. He has never hit any of us and wouldn’t. He’s spent a lot of money and time getting my son’s bedroom decorated recently, he’s invested in all of us.
But calling my son a prick no matter how pre-teeny he is being isn’t ok with me. I didn’t say much yesterday, apart from he should be modelling behaviour that he wants my son to adopt. I.e. not peppering his language with swear words.
Afterwards he said sorry and apologised to my son but he has done before and it always happens again.
Do I take his further and suggest he get help or move on? Is this normal on an occasional basis? Apart from my wonderful recently
deceased father, I haven’t had the best male experiences. A bi-polar angry stepfather and an emotionally abusive father to my kids. I don’t want to overreact but...

He really yells when my DS
he said sorry and apologised to my son but he has done before and it always happens again.

DH is a supportive loving husband and a good stepfather - I'm sorry, what did you say...?

When someone says sorry, and repeats the behaviour they have apologised for, the apology means nothing. They aren't really sorry at all, they just want you to forget what they did...

He has never hit any of us and wouldn’t.
You cannot be 100% sure of that. Abusive people escalate.

Sounds like this is the first time he has called your son a name. Did you ever think he would call your son a prick? No, but he did, didn't he? Escalation.

PLEASE stop thinking he is supportive, or a good stepfather. He is neither.

PLEASE stop putting him before your son.

You are NOT overreacting.

Would you have posted if this was your son's bio father?

Or are you expecting something different as it's a step father?

In all honestly, having had teens who are now adults in their 30s, I'd say a Dad calling a step son a prick was very low down on the Richter scale of son/ dad bad behaviour- and my DH is quiet, kind and no temper.

It all depends on the context but someone can call someone a prick for doing something pretty minor and it can be said in a jokey or affectionate way.

My son is gobby and chats back

So you expect another adult who is not their bio father to accept that and not occasionally get annoyed?

Maybe you expect perfection?.
The context is everything. You could call someone a fool, or an idiot, or just plain daft, rather than say 'prick' , but it all depends on why it was said and tone of voice.

Family life is often full of rows, ups and downs, but that's normal. If your son and his step dad get on w ell most of the time, I think maybe you are over reacting a bit based on your previous history?

You are both teaching your children that it’s okay to verbally abuse someone that you love.

Get a grip. I still call my kids out out when they are being pricks. I love them and that’s why I call them out on it, if I didn’t love them then I couldn’t be arsed. Who needs that aggravation! If needed I will say ‘you are acting like a complete and utter prick’ or ‘you realise you are being a complete and utter prick’. Should I just leave them to carry on being a prick and not point this out because I love them?

A feeling of low self-worth

Oh I wonder why this is?

Total mystery.

Your partner sounds like an abusive knob. Does he behave like this at work or only towards those to whom he can get away with it? Like a kid who has to live with him.

You might find that your son's anxiety and behaviour both improve with his stepfather out of the house.It sounds like a really tense household to grow up in.

How old is your other child?

This thread makes me sad. My stepfather was verbally abusive to me throughout my childhood and teens. My mum didn't intervene. I sometimes think about billing them for the two years of therapy I've needed in order to scrape together some self esteem.

He has counselling at school to build emotional resilience which is where a lot of the backchat comes from. A feeling of low self-worth

Where has that feeling of low self worth come from, op? A step father who belittles him, apologises, and does it again.

A feeling of low self-worth.

Maybe you should stop allowing him to be abused in his own home then.

He's got one adult abusing him on a regular basis and another adult - his mother - standing by and allowing it to happen because she doesn't think he's worth protecting.

Can't possibly imagine why he might have low self-worth.

The labels of 'abuse' here are really worrying.
Let's not minimise real abuse by applying the word to a bit of name calling by a parent working from home and under stress.

I get the impression from a lot of posts that a) posters have never had teens and been pushed to their limits of patience and b) have never ever called their child a 'bad' name if they were out or order.

Let's maybe have some understanding for a man pushed to his limits by a gobby pre-teen, who's not his bio son, is working at home, doing his best for his step family.

It doesnt' sound as if this is something that goes on all of the time - he said 2 x in 8 years?

Maybe you need a joint chat OP with your husband to work out the best way to handle your son. Talk to HIM not MN.

Some of these comments calling your DH abusive for calling a bratty 11 year old a prick (when he probs was being a prick) is ridiculous. We all say things in the heat of the moment, that is NOT abuse.

OP, what would you do if your DH was your son's father? Would you reaction be any different?
If your child is not comfortable around someone I would get rid of them.
I completely agree he shouldn't parent your child, however in my mind it also comes with him not paying for any child related costs.

Gobby? Chats back? Your husband thinks he behaves appallingly and is disrespectful and ungrateful to you both. Does your husband have a point?

If your DS does have poor behaviour that isn't addressed properly then I can understand why your DH gets wound up. He shouldn't really yell at him and certainly shouldn't swear at him but are you really addressing your child's poor behaviour? What is your DH supposed to do when your son repeatedly talks back and refuses to do things?

@mishmash13

This thread makes me sad. My stepfather was verbally abusive to me throughout my childhood and teens. My mum didn't intervene. I sometimes think about billing them for the two years of therapy I've needed in order to scrape together some self esteem.

Right? People think calling kids names is perfectly acceptable, and do not understand the damage it does.

If your child is not comfortable around someone I would get rid of them

How has said he was not comfortable? he was being bratty and gobby and pushing boundaries with another man- teenage boys do that. it's part of growing up and they need clear boundaries (ok, ideally not with swearing, but parents are humans.)
Maybe the husband will walk instead?

And what kind of signal will that give to the boy?

Honestly, it's shocking how so many posters suggest breaking up this family where the son will have had 2 fathers by the time he is 12.

How do you think that would affect him?

He'd either feel it was all his fault- low self esteem again- OR feel he had some power to come between his mum and her husband.

Neither is good for a child who already has issues.

Adults who are married, talk to each other and work out ways to manage a bratty gobby child with low self esteem.

Splitting up so quickly is not the answer.

He’s spent a lot of money and time getting my son’s bedroom decorated recently, he’s invested in all of us.

What do you mean by this comment? Surely it is normal for parents to decorate a kids bedroom from time to time. Does he use this as an example of him being "invested in all of you" or despite having been with him for 8 years do you struggle to feel like you are really a family unit?
Personally I think some posters might be overreacting without all the information. Honestly I struggle to believe that there are any families where at least one parent hasn't occasionally yelled at the child when they lost their temper. It isn't clear from your post if he has been yelling at your son for 8 years or if it has just been recently. If it is more recent, what impact has lockdown had? I know I shouted at DS occasionally when stressed trying to teach him from home whilst working ft last term.
I can't tell from your post whether he has yelled and called DS names for years or whether this is a recent thing and whether there are issues around whether you have all integrated properly as a family unit since your marriage.

@JinglingHellsBells

The labels of 'abuse' here are really worrying. Let's not minimise real abuse by applying the word to a bit of name calling by a parent working from home and under stress.

I get the impression from a lot of posts that a) posters have never had teens and been pushed to their limits of patience and b) have never ever called their child a 'bad' name if they were out or order.

Let's maybe have some understanding for a man pushed to his limits by a gobby pre-teen, who's not his bio son, is working at home, doing his best for his step family.

It doesnt' sound as if this is something that goes on all of the time - he said 2 x in 8 years?

Maybe you need a joint chat OP with your husband to work out the best way to handle your son. Talk to HIM not MN.

You see, I TALK to my kids (one teen, one pre) about their behaviour, I don't call them pricks, gobby, brats, shits or anything of the kind, because I lived that as a kid and it is emotional/verbal abuse. It does nothing to minimise "real" abuse, because it IS real abuse. It leaves scars and it hurts, and it damages people and their self esteem.

It would be abuse if someone was doing it to their partner, and it is if it's an adult doing it to their kids.

Don't give me "stressed" either, I am stressed and tired, and fed up, like most of us, but I am yet to call my kids anything derogatory.

No it didn’t come from his relationship with his stepfather. It’s a deep rooted lack of self- confidence and I suspect came from a time before he can remember. He was a sunny happy baby and I left his father when his father’s controlling, vile behaviour towards me started to affect my son. His sister was 1 when I left, there are no issues with her. We arrived at my mum’s and he took a stick to my mum’s rhododendrun bush and started beating it. I went to stop him and my mum said “I think he needs to get it out of his system, leave him to it.” It was the start of some tricky behaviour which has persisted although I believe improved. As I said, he’s already having counselling. For the most part my now husband is lovely and cares very much for my son. I think that’s why I compartmentalise his temper (as someone said (Interesting comment)) it doesn’t fit with the rest of him at all.

So I am grateful for everyone’s advice. Even all the ones that told me to get over myself and if he’s being a prick he deserves to know and it won’t do him any harm (I hope you’re right, your words are actually reassuring).

But I’m going to ask my husband to not discipline my son at all for now. The reason he didn’t want a long conversation by the way is because he’s ashamed of himself. I’m going to ask him to leave discipline to me until he can change the language he uses to be kinder. And if needs to read up to do that, then so be it. I think he’ll be amenable to this, he’s actually a lovely human with a bad temper. If anyone can recommend books for this purpose, let me know.
Thanks all x

@JinglingHellsBells

The labels of 'abuse' here are really worrying. Let's not minimise real abuse by applying the word to a bit of name calling by a parent working from home and under stress.

I get the impression from a lot of posts that a) posters have never had teens and been pushed to their limits of patience and b) have never ever called their child a 'bad' name if they were out or order.

Let's maybe have some understanding for a man pushed to his limits by a gobby pre-teen, who's not his bio son, is working at home, doing his best for his step family.

It doesnt' sound as if this is something that goes on all of the time - he said 2 x in 8 years?

Maybe you need a joint chat OP with your husband to work out the best way to handle your son. Talk to HIM not MN.

He said twice in 8 years - the OP says it's at least monthly

i wouldn't call it abusive as such, its certainly not good, and if your H can't handle a gobby 11yo, then perhaps he ought to step back and let you handle the discipline.

The bit that bothers me the most tbh, is where you said he went back outside to have another pop at your son.. why? That to me is borderline abusive behaviour, and something my EA exH used to do.. he couldn't drop stuff, he'd just bring it back up and upset me or the kids all over again!

Remind him one day your son will be big enough to knock him the fuck out.

So I taught him how to start the mower, line up the rows etc. It was all going brilliantly and then my DH went out to have another pop at him.

That's massively crossing the line.

Saying something in anger is one thing (although it's not acceptable to be verbally abusive even in anger), but to seek out your son long after the fact to have another go at him? That's ridiculous.

What is his justification for that?

I would say 8 years of parenting shows your DH is "invested" rather than redecorating your DS's bedroom. OP, you don't paint a picture of a family unit. It seems to be you and the kids and then DH separate. That isn't a great set up especially after 8 years together.

I personally don't think the odd occasion of losing it a bit with a preteen who is answering back is that big a deal - certainly not abuse but that would depend on really how frequently this is happening. if it is frequent, I would be minded to agree that it is amounting to bullying or a form of emotional abuse but you have been really vague in your posts.

@JinglingHellsBells Honestly, it's shocking how so many posters suggest breaking up this family where the son will have had 2 fathers by the time he is 12. How do you think that would affect him?

Erm... that his mum won't allow him to be treated like crap by a man?

Do you seriously think this lad needs to put up with being called names, in his home by this man just because YOU think it's not "good" to have 2 "fathers" by the time he is 12?

Do you really think that is more damaging than staying where he is spoken to like shit? Somewhere where he is already having therapy for low self worth?

He did not choose this. He does not get to choose to stay, or leave.

Do not keep underestimating the damage that living with this causes. This type of treatment, and his low self worth are gateways to self medicating. Or self harm.

You have no idea what you are advocating.

I think you need to sit down and work out a way forward for dealing with situations where your DS pushes DH's buttons, because it keeps happening and the way your DH is dealing with it isn't effective, evidenced by the fact that it keeps happening.

If someone was calling me those sorts of names several times a month my self esteem would be shot to pieces, along with my motivation to behave well for that person, my respect for that person and any chance that it wouldn't become my internal voice for life.
But it sounds like dh might be interested in change. I think he needs to engage with that or his position in sobs life should be under serious review.