Neighbours - is this a child safety issue or do I keep my beak out?

[njf33]

Neighbours live in a small new build style 2 bed house. Ground floor is effectively all open plan. They have 4 children (mix of boys and girls) - youngest around 5, eldest started secondary school last year so 12, coming up for 13 I guess. All 4 children share a room which personally I don't think is appropriate given the age of the eldest girl who either is or will shortly be going through puberty. They own rather than rent, we're in an expensive area so their house would be worth 350-400k.

More seriously, they leave all their children to play outside all day unsupervised, and have done for years. We're on a busy road (main road out of an estate) which is also a bus route. The youngest child in particular has no road sense and I have seen several near misses where he hasn't looked before running across the road, although none of them are particularly traffic aware. I've had all of them running across my drive while I'm reversing, or just standing on the pavement (my car is quite high up, and it's quite easy for them to end up in my blind spot) and they do this to other neighbours too. They also ride their bikes and electric scooters down the middle of the road again not properly watching for traffic.

I understand children need to play etc however as parents I feel we have a duty to make sure our children can do so safely before allowing them out unsupervised especially on a road where there is a fair amount of passing traffic. As to how I know they are unsupervised, you can't see into the street easily from our houses due to the road layout; occasionally (usually after a near miss) one parent will stand outside in the front garden for an hour or two 'watching' but they normally get bored of that after a day or so and go back inside leaving children to their own devices.

I think there is an issue here - so YANBU - yes, do something or YABU (beak out).

YABU to cast judgement on their sleeping arrangements. It really isn't your business and you couldn't possibly know who is sleeping where.

I would tell one of the parents about any specific dangerous incidents you have seen factually, with no added opinion

@Velvian as mentioned above, I would be concerned about an adverse reaction, so will not be speaking to them directly, I'd rather not risk my personal safety.

I don’t think the bedroom thing is an issue at all but I found it very hard to imagine letting my 5 year old play outside on the street! I don’t know anyone who lets their young kids play out unsupervised (with or without older kids present) and would find it very stressful dealing with kids playing outside my driveway when trying to reverse in/drive out.

You're nosy and a busy body. My criteria for getting involved with something or someone are: a) Does it impact on my life? b) Is someone in immediate danger of injury or death? 3) Is someone in need of physical or mental help?

None of those apply in your neighbour's case so mind your own business.

You know

a) Does it impact on my life? b) Is someone in immediate danger of injury or death? 3) Is someone in need of physical or mental help?

a) yes, every time I have to wait for them to move out of the way when they are standing blocking my drive, or try and look for them about to run out between parked cars
b) they are in danger of injury or death every time they run across the road without looking. Maybe not right this second as it's raining here and they are inside, but at multiple times during the day
c) well personally I think the parents are neglectful, so do need help.

But even leaving that aside, the answers to a and b are pretty clear.

Are you my neighbour Crankley? I'm sure you think her giving me a mouthful when I told her kid to mind out of the way when he was blocking my drive was absolutely right...the sort of person who can't allow anyone else to talk to their kids

But you don’t care about their safety! If you did you wouldn’t risk running them over reversing onto a busy road when you have a high car with a blind spot and you know they play in the street.

You want to have a go at them and you think SS will help you do that, that’s all.

I have to either reverse OUT OF or INTO my driveway.

It is impossible to park a car on a driveway without doing one of those 2 things, I'm sure you know this being apparently an expert driver :)

9/10 times or more I reverse in, carefully avoiding these children, or waiting for them to move off my driveway or the pavement in front of it so I can complete my manoeuvre.

However they are more of a hazard when they are running in front of cars moving at speed. I'm not moving at speed, I am slowly reversing onto or off my driveway.

Children are obviously far more at risk from a car travelling at 30mph along a road (as those driving normally along the road are) than one reversing at 2mph. But again, you must know that given your professed level of driving expertise?

9/10 times or more I reverse in, carefully avoiding these children, or waiting for them to move off my driveway or the pavement in front of it so I can complete my manoeuvre.

What do you do the other 1/10 times? Do you reverse into the road you say is busy with buses and motorbikes and cars moving at speed?

As I did explain upthread, on those occasions when I have had to drive in, often I'll go out in late evening (or indeed early morning) and turn my car round if I know I will be using it next at a busy time.

The buses stop running at 11pm and don't resume until 6.30am. And the children are normally indoors after 10pm, and don't re-emerge until about 8am. Between those hours the roads are also quieter, obviously.

@njf33

As I did explain upthread, on those occasions when I have had to drive in, often I'll go out in late evening (or indeed early morning) and turn my car round if I know I will be using it next at a busy time.

The buses stop running at 11pm and don't resume until 6.30am. And the children are normally indoors after 10pm, and don't re-emerge until about 8am. Between those hours the roads are also quieter, obviously.

So why did we need any information at all about your car being high and having a blind spot if you are at absolutely no danger at all of running one of them over?

If you know what school they go to talk to the safeguarding lead and they can investigate or advise. Don't go straight to social services. They'll keep it anonymous. If there's more unfortunate circumstances going on behind closed doors (school will have a file if there is anything) besides this which is a form of neglect it will help get the right people in to support them.

There's a risk when they run behind any reversing car (mine included) and I mean by this when I am reversing ONTO my driveway. I've never had this issue with another child or adult in the time I've lived here as it is obvious when a car is reversing and children and adults know to keep out of the way.

I've made it pretty clear that the greater risk is when they are crossing without looking in front of cars proceeding normally (not manouevring), which the children do multiple times a day.

I could contact the school however I'm not entirely sure of which ones they attend (there's one back to people who are saying I'm a nosy busybody :) )

I've made it pretty clear that the greater risk is when they are crossing without looking in front of cars proceeding normally (not manouevring), which the children do multiple times a day.

That’s true, you did change it when everyone pointed out how ridiculous you are. Same with the whole thing about them sharing a room and the layout of their house.

With the information you have, it is not enough to say that the children are definitely being neglected. BUT there is enough there to say they MIGHT be, and where there is a question, I say always report.
Could you live with yourself if they get injured on the road, or worse, if you had just looked on and done nothing?

Oh dear...I've not changed anything :)

I've not changed the comments I made about their house in my OP. I mentioned the b/g children all sharing one bedroom despite 1 being almost a teenager and that personally I don't think it is appropriate. I still feel that isn't appropriate, and some posters have agreed that it isn't great.

I made it clear in my OP that my main issue was that the children are left to play outside all day unsupervised. I clearly said this was more serious than the sleeping arrangements.

I also stated that as we're on a busy road (main road out of an estate) which is also a bus route, the children have little or no road sense and I have seen several near misses with them running across the road in front of cars, that the parents should be ensuring their safety on a road with lots of through traffic.

In addition I said that personally I had experienced them running across my drive while I'm reversing, or just standing on the pavement as had other neighbours. But it was very clear that my concern was not limited to them being on the pavement while I was reversing...that was simply my personal experience. Thankfully as I am always driving very slowly on our stretch of road as preparing to park on my drive or emerging from my drive, I have not had the experience of them running in front of my car travelling at 20-30mph, but there have been near misses with these cars.

That's all in my OP. Just because you and a few posters chose to home in on whether I was reversing into or out of my drive and try to derail the thread by haranguing me about it, doesn't mean that this wasn't all in my OP, and I haven't changed my story, or my concerns one bit. To seek to imply otherwise is rather disingenuous on your part.

"I know they all share a room (with 2 sets of bunk beds). The other bedroom which I can see from my house is clearly the parents room."

Do you have binoculars to help you see? You could set up a rota with some other neighbours so you don't miss anything. Maybe if you're lucky you'll catch them having a quick shag after the kids have gone to sleep in their Dickensian style shared bedroom.

While it won't meet social services threshold as stand alone information I wouldn't discourage you from giving them the information that is of concern to you.
It is their job to look for wider patterns and evaluate risks not yours.
It could fit into a wider pattern though it mostly likely won't.

"I understand children need to play etc however as parents I feel we have a duty to make sure our children can do so safely before allowing them out unsupervised"

You have too much time on your disposal. Why do you live alone? You say as parents, so you must have children. Are they all grown up? Pay more attention to your own children or grand children than checking out neighbour with young family?

I still don't get why you left it for years to be concerned about this. You said they played outside unsupervised for years. Now eldest is 12. Few years ago, there were 4 children under 10.