Neighbours - is this a child safety issue or do I keep my beak out?

[njf33]

Neighbours live in a small new build style 2 bed house. Ground floor is effectively all open plan. They have 4 children (mix of boys and girls) - youngest around 5, eldest started secondary school last year so 12, coming up for 13 I guess. All 4 children share a room which personally I don't think is appropriate given the age of the eldest girl who either is or will shortly be going through puberty. They own rather than rent, we're in an expensive area so their house would be worth 350-400k.

More seriously, they leave all their children to play outside all day unsupervised, and have done for years. We're on a busy road (main road out of an estate) which is also a bus route. The youngest child in particular has no road sense and I have seen several near misses where he hasn't looked before running across the road, although none of them are particularly traffic aware. I've had all of them running across my drive while I'm reversing, or just standing on the pavement (my car is quite high up, and it's quite easy for them to end up in my blind spot) and they do this to other neighbours too. They also ride their bikes and electric scooters down the middle of the road again not properly watching for traffic.

I understand children need to play etc however as parents I feel we have a duty to make sure our children can do so safely before allowing them out unsupervised especially on a road where there is a fair amount of passing traffic. As to how I know they are unsupervised, you can't see into the street easily from our houses due to the road layout; occasionally (usually after a near miss) one parent will stand outside in the front garden for an hour or two 'watching' but they normally get bored of that after a day or so and go back inside leaving children to their own devices.

I think there is an issue here - so YANBU - yes, do something or YABU (beak out).

@Pumperthepumper No they obviously wouldn't be in any danger if they were behind her when she was driving out (although they still shouldn't be on her drive) but in order to drive out forward she needs to reverse into her drive and they would be in danger if they were behind her car when she was reversing onto her drive. People seem to think the only issue is her leaving her drive but it applies to entering the drive just as much. I've said the issue with traffic is different, I'm talking about the assumption that if the OP reversed onto the drive it would mean the children wouldn't be in danger, wouldn't be in her blind spot but those things still apply just as much if she is reversing onto her drive. In fact people started the criticism about her reversing off her drive when in her OP she didn't say whether she was reversing on or off her drive, people just wanted to critisise.

Do you think the children are in any danger if the are behind her when she is reversing onto the drive? What is your answer? Should she not use her drive in case the neighbours kids want to run about on her drive? The children shouldn't be on her drive because they are at risk if they are behind a reversing car.

No, the best thing to is to keep reversing out onto oncoming traffic on a busy road despite not being able to see properly with your high car and blind spot, and if you kill anyone or cause an accident then too bad for them.

OP. You yourself said you drove in quickly, you yourself have said your car is too high, you yourself have said you can't see blindspots.

Thats all shit driving, particularly when you know you are in area where children may be on the pavement between the road and your driveway (let alone dogs, wheelchair users, parents with prams).

@ancientgran it is not her drive. She does not own the pavement outside of her property boundary.

[quote ancientgran]@Pumperthepumper No they obviously wouldn't be in any danger if they were behind her when she was driving out (although they still shouldn't be on her drive) but in order to drive out forward she needs to reverse into her drive and they would be in danger if they were behind her car when she was reversing onto her drive. People seem to think the only issue is her leaving her drive but it applies to entering the drive just as much. I've said the issue with traffic is different, I'm talking about the assumption that if the OP reversed onto the drive it would mean the children wouldn't be in danger, wouldn't be in her blind spot but those things still apply just as much if she is reversing onto her drive. In fact people started the criticism about her reversing off her drive when in her OP she didn't say whether she was reversing on or off her drive, people just wanted to critisise.

Do you think the children are in any danger if the are behind her when she is reversing onto the drive? What is your answer? Should she not use her drive in case the neighbours kids want to run about on her drive? The children shouldn't be on her drive because they are at risk if they are behind a reversing car.[/quote]
Because they won’t be in her drive. They’ll be on the street. The street she can see when she drives up to it. So she can look around, see if the children are there and move the car. Which is the exact opposite of moving the car despite (as she admits herself) not being able to see out her high car with the blind spot.

Yes of course, my driving is terrible. That's why I have a clean licence and have never had an accident.

You reverse out of you drive into traffic! You’re on the wind up now, nobody is this stupid 😂

LizB62A thank you, that's a very good point. I do have a dashcam as well, as I know how important they can be if involved in an accident of any kind. A friend was involved in a staged pedestrian accident a couple of years ago - basically an adult jumped on the bonnet of friend's moving car and claimed to have been hit - and the dashcam footage proved friend's account. We all got one immediately after that.

If I see any children nearby, I would wait for them to move away. So, yeah, I live on the street with lots of children, but never had problem of near misses.
If you have told them what you are doing, and ask to move away, yet if they are walking, scooting or cycling across the path of a moving vehicle , then no matter how rude the parents are, you need to speak to them.

@njf33 I can and do drive safely but what I can't do is reverse my car through the 12ft opening of my driveway when there is a child standing right in the middle of that opening - on the boundary of my drive and the pavement as apparently I need to make that clear too! - not sure how I can get onto the drive with a child positioned in that fashion but I'm sure someone will pop up to tell me if I had a different car or was more skillful I'd manage it!

Well you have choices:

1. Learn to levitate your car over the children
2. Don't use your own drive as obviously the children nextdoor have priority
3. Find out the secret of children being safe if you are reversing onto your drive because it is obvious that they could never ever be hit by a car reversing onto a drive. Presumably the child blocking you when you were reversing onto your drive wasn't an issue.

Or maybe the neighbours could take a bit of responsibility for their children and keep them away from your drive.

I know which one I think is reasonable and I think you might agree.

[quote ancientgran]**@njf33* I can and do drive safely but what I can't do is reverse my car through the 12ft opening of my driveway when there is a child standing right in the middle of that opening - on the boundary of my drive and the pavement as apparently I need to make that clear too! - not sure how I can get onto the drive with a child positioned in that fashion but I'm sure someone will pop up to tell me if I had a different car or was more skillful I'd manage it!*

Well you have choices:

1. Learn to levitate your car over the children
2. Don't use your own drive as obviously the children nextdoor have priority
3. Find out the secret of children being safe if you are reversing onto your drive because it is obvious that they could never ever be hit by a car reversing onto a drive. Presumably the child blocking you when you were reversing onto your drive wasn't an issue.

Or maybe the neighbours could take a bit of responsibility for their children and keep them away from your drive.

I know which one I think is reasonable and I think you might agree.[/quote]
Even if the parents do take responsibility for these kids, what’s stopping the OP reversing out onto some other kid? Or a dog?

@Jargo @ancientgran it is not her drive. She does not own the pavement outside of her property boundary. In the OP she states, I've had all of them running across my drive while I'm reversing

I would imagine they stay put if it's a good catchment area for schools

As for the bedroom situation, I have 3 kids in a 5 bedroom home. They all have their own rooms but choose to sleep in the same room every night!! together.

Ha ha same as us, we even paid for a loft conversion when they were younger, so they could have a bedroom each but all 4 of them just ended up in the same one room 🤦‍♀️

They are teenagers now and when we go on holiday with their cousin they all still bring the blankets, duvets etc and bed down in one room AND they are different sexes, shock horror

OP when you were nosing saw the parents' room set up how do you know a couple of the children don't sleep in there? or have you looked when they are actually IN bed?

On the issue of road safety and concerns over the young children I would mention it to them to avoid something dreadful happening.
On the issue of you feeling their children shouldn’t be sharing a room, their house is too small and you’ve costed their finances and realised they could afford somewhere bigger to move to......mention that as well, will be funny to read their reaction on here

@Pumperthepumper Even if the parents do take responsibility for these kids, what’s stopping the OP reversing out onto some other kid? Or a dog? Did you miss the times where I said that was a separate issue, where I know about the safety issues relating to that? If these children are running across her drive it is irrelevant, they are at risk and trespassing. The OP wasn't asking for road safety advice she was specifically asking about the behaviour of these children and the risks to them. Her reversing on or off her drive won't make any difference to these particular children when they are running across her drive. Telling her they would be safe is she reversed onto the drive is wrong, if they happen to run behind her when she is reversing onto the drive they will be hurt.

On the occasions when I reverse off my driveway I of course wait until the road is completely clear in both directions before starting to emerge.

Like I said I generally reverse in but if there is a car or bus right up my backside (maybe 1 in 10 times, possibly less depending on time of day) I go in forwards. Sometimes I will then go out late at night and turn the car round ready to drive out forward facing the next day.

However, the danger these children are in from my car emerging at 1-2mph onto or from my driveway is tiny compared to that from buses, vans, other cars, motorbikes etc travelling at 20-30mph when they cross the road from one side to the other without checking it's clear which they do all the time.

n terms of finances, I know that they have lived there for 10+ years and prices have gone up by approx 100k in that time. Both parents are in employment, which does suggest they could afford to move to a larger property in a cheaper area

Jesus, thank fuck I don't have neighbours like you! Telling me how I should spend my money! I've heard it all now. Keep your nose out of other peoples business and learn how to drive and park safely.

[quote ancientgran]**@Pumperthepumper* Even if the parents do take responsibility for these kids, what’s stopping the OP reversing out onto some other kid? Or a dog?* Did you miss the times where I said that was a separate issue, where I know about the safety issues relating to that? If these children are running across her drive it is irrelevant, they are at risk and trespassing. The OP wasn't asking for road safety advice she was specifically asking about the behaviour of these children and the risks to them. Her reversing on or off her drive won't make any difference to these particular children when they are running across her drive. Telling her they would be safe is she reversed onto the drive is wrong, if they happen to run behind her when she is reversing onto the drive they will be hurt.[/quote]
So your argument is, if she hits these specific children it’s their fault, or their parents fault - but if she hits any other stranger or animal, it’s her fault?

On the occasions when I reverse off my driveway I of course wait until the road is completely clear in both directions before starting to emerge.

You can’t possibly know that though, due to your high car and blind spot.

If you are so worried, enough to post a thread, why not do anything? You said you won't talk to the parents because they are rude and unpleasant. But most of parents care for their children, so if they are in danger, their parents would listen to you, don't they?

@Jargo

I didn't say they didn't? That doesn't mean I agree with it.

Children don't need to be taught what to avoid on the path or pavement - thats for the driving test and drivers need to be extremely careful when driving over a path or pavement as 100% of the responsibility lies with the driver - not the person using a pavement - there are many people on the path that will not have a driving licence for a reason and many different reasons from registered blind to special needs and the onus must be on the driver at all times

@Pumperthepumper my point is the OP was asking about the safety issues in relation to these children, you and others seem to think they will be totally resolved by the OP reversing onto her drive which is frankly ridiculous.

The possible overcrowding is none of your business, but YANBU to raise concerns about the unsafe behaviour on the road, and a 5yo playing out in public with no adult supervision.

[quote ancientgran]@Pumperthepumper my point is the OP was asking about the safety issues in relation to these children, you and others seem to think they will be totally resolved by the OP reversing onto her drive which is frankly ridiculous.[/quote]
But she can’t control what they do - remember this is the same OP who spies on her neighbours to work out where they all sleep and how much money they have - she can only control what she does. And probably a good place to start is by learning how to drive properly so she doesn’t run someone over in her high car with a blind spot.