Neighbours - is this a child safety issue or do I keep my beak out?

[njf33]

Neighbours live in a small new build style 2 bed house. Ground floor is effectively all open plan. They have 4 children (mix of boys and girls) - youngest around 5, eldest started secondary school last year so 12, coming up for 13 I guess. All 4 children share a room which personally I don't think is appropriate given the age of the eldest girl who either is or will shortly be going through puberty. They own rather than rent, we're in an expensive area so their house would be worth 350-400k.

More seriously, they leave all their children to play outside all day unsupervised, and have done for years. We're on a busy road (main road out of an estate) which is also a bus route. The youngest child in particular has no road sense and I have seen several near misses where he hasn't looked before running across the road, although none of them are particularly traffic aware. I've had all of them running across my drive while I'm reversing, or just standing on the pavement (my car is quite high up, and it's quite easy for them to end up in my blind spot) and they do this to other neighbours too. They also ride their bikes and electric scooters down the middle of the road again not properly watching for traffic.

I understand children need to play etc however as parents I feel we have a duty to make sure our children can do so safely before allowing them out unsupervised especially on a road where there is a fair amount of passing traffic. As to how I know they are unsupervised, you can't see into the street easily from our houses due to the road layout; occasionally (usually after a near miss) one parent will stand outside in the front garden for an hour or two 'watching' but they normally get bored of that after a day or so and go back inside leaving children to their own devices.

I think there is an issue here - so YANBU - yes, do something or YABU (beak out).

I won't speak to the parents about it because they're rude and unpleasant and not the type to respond positively to criticism. Put it this way, when I was once trying to reverse onto my drive (quickly, before other traffic came as I was blocking the road) and one of the kids was just stood right in the middle of it, I leaned out the car window and said 'can you move please' I wasn't shouting but probably did sound a bit irritated. The mother (who happened to be getting something from her car on their drive) screeched at me not to bully her kids or tell them what to do! Since then I try to ignore the family 99% of the time, but as I work in a role where I see the effects of road accidents, it doesn't sit well with me that they are taking such risks with their children's safety.

Our road is not classed as a 'main' road but despite this it is still relatively busy.

@Jargo @ancientgran it has been proven that is much safer which is why many places insist on it. Really, it has been proven that a child running behind you when you are reversing onto your drive is safer than a child running behind you when you are reversing off, how much safer can you show us the statistics. I know reversing onto the road is more dangerous but that is a different thing.

Specifically for drives - the pavements are higher than the road and so you are more likely to see a child. The end of the drive is also usually higher. Not on the estate where I live, in fact I don't even have a pavement outside my house. Do you know the arrangement where the OP lives?

The point is the children shouldn't be running across the OPs drive, they definitely shouldn't be running on it when a car is moving. Making this the fault of the OP is totally unreasonable.

Just FYI this

given the age of the eldest girl who either is or will shortly be going through puberty

sounds mega creepy

but as I work in a role where I see the effects of road accidents

Yet you still reverse out into oncoming traffic? Hmmm, it’s starting to get a bit far fetched now.

Put it this way, when I was once trying to reverse onto my drive (quickly, before other traffic came as I was blocking the road)

See - you are trying to reverse quickly, by your own admission. This is the issue.

You need to ensure you are driving safely first and foremost. Traffic can wait.

@ancientgran there's plenty of information on the benefits of reverse parking and in many places it is compulsory. I suggest you google to look it up if you are indeed interested.

However, reverse park or not, it's your responsibility to ensure you drive safely, check your blind spots and double check your surroundings.

Op, road safety is important. So I can see your concern. You say the NDN is unpleasant and rude, but I get the same impression from you too. If you think family with 4 children can move to better place so easily, maybe it may be even easier for you to move to better place without 4 children.

@ANewNameIsWhat

In some parts of the world it’s considered a cruel punishment to sleep alone. The children might like sharing and it certainly isn’t neglect. The council put families and worse conditions than that, whole families sharing a room.....

That is the punishment for my 5 and 7 year old if they wake each other up before it is time to get up 🤣 They insist on sleeping in the same room.

Speak to the parents and ask if they are aware how close to disaster their kids are.
Put it in a way you are worried when you leave your drive.
Perhaps stop reversing, bit of a daft manoeuvre anyway.

@Jargo @ancientgran there's plenty of information on the benefits of reverse parking and in many places it is compulsory. I suggest you google to look it up if you are indeed interested. So show us the information about children being magically protected if they are running across your drive when you reverse onto the drive.

I know the information about reversing onto and off your drive in relation to traffic and pedestrians on the road/pavement but I've never seen any about movement actually on the drive. Probably because it doesn't exist as a child behind a moving car is in danger regardless where the road is.

All of that is totally irrelevant to the fact that they shouldn't be running across the OPs drive in the first place. Obviously some people think other people's gardens and drives are OK for their kids to play on.

@ancientgran but it's not OPs drive - it's the pavement. OP is calling her drive the bit that crosses the pavement from her description.

Plenty of things move on the pavement, as is to be expected.

There isn't a law or anything regarding bedroom sharing if the kids are of different sexes but there is advice by the NSPCC that this is considered overcrowding if necessary over the age of 10.
But obviously many family are happy in this situation, although some won't be.
Bedroom there is nothing you can do. Unsupervised on road seems much more scary but not sure what you can do about it?

The road safety issue hasn't sat well with me for a long time. However when the elder children were younger, they weren't constantly in the street, and when they were seemed to play more outside their house/ in the immediate vicinity, crossing of roads etc was infrequent, so the risks were smaller. However now the older ones roam further afield, walk to the shops etc the younger ones do so as well (sometimes with them, sometimes not) and are just all outside more and more, running to and fro across the street etc.

I generally do reverse onto my driveway. I also now have a car with a reversing camera so am better able to see behind me. I hope that satisfies those of you who think I'm the problem here because I dare to think that children should have been taught not to walk, scoot or cycle across the path of a moving vehicle :)

Very much doubt you can report them for letting their kids place unsupervised outside. Personally I would not have a 5yr old outside playing without adult supervision, my sensible 7yr old isn't even allowed. I don’t agree with letting young kids roam about roads and estates generally, I think it’s negligent at worst and lazy parenting at best, but it’s not really any of my business, or yours. Hopefully none of them will be involved in an accident or incident but there’s nothing you can do about it. Some people thinks it’s very normal.

The bedroom setup is a non issue and again, not really anyone’s business.

the little ones shouldnt be playing outside and no the older one shouldnt be resp0onsible either esp if they have no road sense

Just drive carefully @njf33

Keep your beak out- could be living where they are for schools.

OP, it’s absolutely not for you to decide if they can afford a bigger house! Presumably if they moved in over 10 years ago, there outgoings have significantly increased considering they have had more children since then. You don’t know what their wages and outgoings are. They are obviously either happy with sharing a room or unable to move for their own personal reasons.

If you have genuine concerns about their safety then yes raise with the parents or report if you wish but if this is all you have to go on, I wouldn’t waste your time.

Probably because it doesn't exist as a child behind a moving car is in danger regardless where the road is.

This is such a stupid argument - they wouldn’t be behind the OP’s car if she was moving forward out of her driveway, they’d be in front of it. The OP knows she can’t see them properly because she has a ‘high car’ and a blind spot (her own words). She KNOWS it’s safer for them if she drives out, and since it’s her driveway/car/street chances are she knows best?

That’s ignoring the issue of reversing out onto traffic - and again, by the OP’s own words, it’s a busy road with a lot of traffic (including buses!)

How you can argue the OP is right, knowing the lack of control she has over her car and being able to see, yet still putting actual human children (not even just these ones but any passing small child, dog, cat, mobility scooter) is just beyond me - are you really this desperate for a fight?

mijssed a post -she said bullying her child for asking them to move out the way-thats ridiculous

i dont know what to say though op i dont tnhink anyone will do anything until something awful happens

Sharing a room - beak out
Road safety - if you can, speak to the parents. Not in a critical way, few people do take kindly to that, just a concerned way e.g. you can tell them about a near miss you saw.

I generally do reverse onto my driveway. I also now have a car with a reversing camera so am better able to see behind me. I hope that satisfies those of you who think I'm the problem here because I dare to think that children should have been taught not to walk, scoot or cycle across the path of a moving vehicle smile

You are the problem though - you reverse out onto oncoming traffic in a road you say yourself is busy.

*Their

I generally do reverse onto my driveway. I also now have a car with a reversing camera so am better able to see behind me. I hope that satisfies those of you who think I'm the problem here because I dare to think that children should have been taught not to walk, scoot or cycle across the path of a moving vehicle smile

And again, you being right will mean absolutely nothing if you kill or injure one of them with your terrible driving.

@Jargo

Put it this way, when I was once trying to reverse onto my drive (quickly, before other traffic came as I was blocking the road)

See - you are trying to reverse quickly, by your own admission. This is the issue.

You need to ensure you are driving safely first and foremost. Traffic can wait.

@ancientgran there's plenty of information on the benefits of reverse parking and in many places it is compulsory. I suggest you google to look it up if you are indeed interested.

However, reverse park or not, it's your responsibility to ensure you drive safely, check your blind spots and double check your surroundings.

I can perform a manouevre quickly AND safely fwiw. I am a competent driver :) I do like the fact that your takeaway point from my post was that I wasn't driving safely rather than my neighbour's attitude

I can and do drive safely but what I can't do is reverse my car through the 12ft opening of my driveway when there is a child standing right in the middle of that opening - on the boundary of my drive and the pavement as apparently I need to make that clear too! - not sure how I can get onto the drive with a child positioned in that fashion but I'm sure someone will pop up to tell me if I had a different car or was more skillful I'd manage it!

Get a front & rear dashcam like this one - if there are four of them behaving dangerously, however careful you are one of them might dash in front of or behind you:

www.amazon.co.uk/VIOFO-Cameras-Detection-G-sensor-Parking/dp/B07DHKLH4F?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Even if you see them, they could still dart in front of you and it will just be your word against theirs unless you have video proof

@Pumperthepumper

I generally do reverse onto my driveway. I also now have a car with a reversing camera so am better able to see behind me. I hope that satisfies those of you who think I'm the problem here because I dare to think that children should have been taught not to walk, scoot or cycle across the path of a moving vehicle smile

And again, you being right will mean absolutely nothing if you kill or injure one of them with your terrible driving.

Yes of course, my driving is terrible. That's why I have a clean licence and have never had an accident.

What a funny hyperbolic little person you are.