to say that working parents need a Plan B (and all parents are responsible for their children's Covid-appropriate behaviour)?

[SaltyAndFresh]

We're kidding ourselves if we think we really have the data to say that opening schools with no social distancing, no PPE (not through choice, it's not allowed) and in many cases inadequately ventilated and crowded classrooms is safe. We can't possibly know. Secondary teachers will be in standing in front of around 300 pupils a week, and there isn't the space for a 2m distance at the front of the room.

Teachers are not saying they don't want schools to reopen (not that they were shut) which has been said and ignored multiple times. I'm both a working parent and a teacher.

AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening? If in the coming months, we as parents end up having to reduce our hours to facilitate blended learning, it will mean difficult financial times ahead but that will not be the fault of schools and school staff.

Please note the 'if'.

Furthermore, AIBU to say that parents of mainstream pupils who want schools open, come what may, should be accountable for their DC's Covid-appropriate behaviour, whether or not they believe the virus is a hoax?

@hardbackwriter I've said this affects me too. I know our current working pattern is not going to work if schools partially close.

@SaltyAndFresh

Well I won't be leaving my DCs unattended so we'll be choosing between one of our jobs as Plan C, at a guess.

But that's such a generic thing to say and you're not answering people. If you are working out your notice or discussing flexible working requests which may be turned down, what will you do then? Go off sick? Ask relatives? What are your plans?

Op, that’s great you gave the financial stability to give up work for what is going to be a temporary situation.

I’m certainly not throwing my career away, or my husbands business and few working parents can afford that.

I’m a teacher too and have a back up plan. But I think it’s unfair to say schools aren’t childcare to parents. Successive governments have allowed house prices to rise to such obscene levels that putting a roof over your family’s head (private rental or owned) is virtually impossible without both parents working (and of course doubly so for single parents). I’m sure most parents would love to be able to work part time and spend more time with their children/teens. I also think children/teens would benefit in ordinary times not just in these weird times. But that’s exceptionally difficult for parents. It’s of course not schools’ or parents’ fault that this is the case but is absolutely IS the government’s fault.

Goady thread is goady.

What Plan B do you expect people to have?

I'm fortunate that I work for a very flexible and family friendly firm who are currently permanently wfh. I've also started discussions with HR about how working parents and employees with caring responsibilities can manage during more closures and lockdowns. But even then there's not a magic bullet they can offer, they'll only go so far in letting us work less, and there's only so much unpaid parental.leave you can take in a year. And my DH is police, so no flexibility there.

No grandparents, no friends, no childcare... None of these will be available in a further lockdown, so genuinely, what the fuck do you imagine people's plan B's should be?

You can even just up and leave work, you'll likely get sued for breach of contract for not working your notice.

I DO understand some of your point - we all need to be aware of what might happen in the future. But I'm fascinated you think everyone can just magic up some kind of plan B that allows them to suddenly not work and stay at home with their children overnight

So @SaltyAndFresh what measures do you want in place? Scotland have schools opened with enhanced cleaning, children in bubbles, distancing where possible and the choice to wear masks or not. Would that be enough for you?

You’re right that there are lower levels of community infection - we came out of lockdown at a much slower pace than England (and were judged for doing so), we also didn’t try to open schools before summer holidays so there’s been time for infection rates to go down. It’ll be interesting to see what happens now schools are open.

I don’t think @SaltyAndFresh has the aptitude to understand everyone else’s point of view.

And I’m saying that as a fellow teacher with children.

OP you're giving teachers a very bad name. You seem to lack critical thinking skills and empathy. I dont believe you speak for most, or even a significant proportion, of the profession. At least I really hope you don't.

I'm a teacher.

Our plan B is to share childcare with other parents in my child's school. We've sorted out doing one day a week with 5 kids. My partner will have to take leave to cover that one day a week, same as he had to take leave every day I went into school before 1st June.

I'm currently on 'holiday' without him, because he doesn't have any leave left.

I feel like you're saying don't blame teachers and that's fine. I'll be fucking furious at the government if schools close again. Is that ok?

If your plan B is just 'lose one of our jobs' then everyone has that as a back-up option, it's 'just' that for lots of people it'll mean losing their home, too which you don't seem to have any empathy for.

@BellsaRinging no op doesn’t speak for the whole profession, I promise!

You get people who are completely unaware of the real world in all professions. I hope we call it “head up buttocks syndrome”

If my dc’s schools are closed, I will have to take unpaid leave. The irony is I am a teacher, but did not get a keyworker place for my children in the summer term. This time I am prepared to not work, lose money and be with my own children.

[quote SaltyAndFresh]@OoohTheStatsDontLie I want (some) parents to accept that this isn't teachers' responsibility.[/quote]
So whose responsibility is it? If someone has a positive test they all have to isolate regardless of work and "plan b"

Goady fucker

Schools and parents need a plan B, every time their school closes.
The schools to provide resources the parents to supervise and teach from home.
Parents will need to reduce hours/ have a sahp/ leave them feral/ pretend they can do it all/ I dunno there's few options, really.

Oh my god OP you really dont get it, do you? I'm guessing you don't teach economics.

We have had barely a hint of the utter shit that would result if a huge swathe of the workforce is unable to work.

How parents take responsibility for their kids is working and paying the taxes that keep you in a job.

You are unbelievably arrogant to think you are somehow better than other people because you have a notion both you & your partner will easily be able to simply reduce hours and keep your children at home, for months and months. I assume you are willing to do that without pay? And you are happy for doctors to do the same? And nurses? And farmers? And other key workers? Everyone has contingency plans but they fall apart in a global pandemic. It doesnt just come down to money, many many jobs in our economy are essential and need to continue whether people can afford to stop/reduce hours or not.

You will be whistling a different tune when there are regular electricity black outs, the water is only on for an hour a day, the majority of tv programming disappears, supermarket shelves are bare. Hospitals are short staffed already.

And it isnt enough to say "ok, we will provide childcare for key workers" because the economy is all interlinked. Not to mention where do you think the money is going to come from? We have absolutely haemorraged money to afford the summer furlough scheme.

Countries where schools have remained open have not seen spikes/outbreaks in schools. DFIL is a doctor and said the evidence suggests children and young people simply don't transmit it in the way older people do, which is why care homes had huge outbreaks but schools did not.

Schools should provide resources/work for children of their schools but that should be their only obligation. Teachers are not there they supervise children whilst parents work. That’s why we have childcare.

@Parker231

Teachers if you want to wear a mask - do so - I’m sure no ones going to physically stop you.

We need the kids to wear masks. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the 30 faces facing me were wearing masks.

I'm a secondary teacher with a Dd starting in reception. I have no clue what we'll do if my dd's school/bubble closes. We have no family nearby (they're all shielding or vulnerable anyway) so it will have to be dh and me taking turns to take time off unless school remains open for key worker kids.

I think a lot of people in any job are like me; just hoping schools will stay open and if not then we'll just do what we have to at the time. Worrying about it now isn't going to help really.

No need to be a twat towards OP - she’s right in that we do not know what is going to happen when schools reopen. Maybe it’ll be fine and we will all think it was Silly to get so worked up in a few months, but you’d expect our actual government who have a dedicated department for education to be considering the impact of their own health advice in schools and preparing accordingly. I’m in local lockdown - it’s been extended and yet in two weeks schools are going back? You can understand why I’m confused about the logic there.
Essentially people need to be able to afford to take time off to self isolate and we need good track and trace. Both of which are completely outside the capacity of schools or the general public. Voice this frustration to the people who can actually do something about it!

When you are employed you can’t just reduce your hours, take annual leave or resign. You work under a contract of employment with T&C’s.

Why all the doom and gloom about teachers with no pe.
I know it sounds scary, but nurseries have been fully open since 1st June.
I've been in contact with approx 100 children across the week, some of those very close contact (cuddles, nappies, first aid etc) with no ppe (or only what we would usually wear for nappies and 1st aid)

If the country hasn't been brought to a halt by that, why would it be so when schools return?
You may not be able to stay exactly 2m frm a class of teenagers, but you certainly won't be holding them, having them sneeze on you, wipe their noses on your shoulders as they cry etc.
I'm sure schools will manage, on the whole.
There may be some local issues, but nationally it will be manageable.

So threads like these just stir up resentment. If we can do it, so can teachers.

And my plan B, with a child with SEN, and no other childcare options available to me, is to resign and live on benefits.
Not a plan I want, so I need kids in school, I have no other option.

@SaltyAndFresh

OP expects to just tell her employer she won't be in for childcare reasons and still get paid/keep her job

@FinnyStory I didn't say this at all. I'm having to book a week of unpaid parental leave because my DCs' school has school added a week on in sure and is taking it off autumn.

Your school has authorised that? There's no way my head would allow that.

"AIBU to say that schools don't exist for parents' economic convenience and that if too many school staff become ill, it's up to parents to have a Plan B if schools have to scale back their opening?"

On a personal level....I'm fully expecting there to be further lockdowns. So yes, I'm thinking about a plan B.

I'm really lucky to have a part time job I can do from home. I have turned down the offer of extra hours to accomodate the possibility of home schooling in future.

Thats me. The implications for the rest of society are more worrying. If mothers have to pick up slack, we're going to be really hampered in our ability to earn.
Thinking of what that means for womens rights and for child poverty is really concerning.

@killerofmen

I feel like you're saying don't blame teachers and that's fine. I'll be fucking furious at the government if schools close again. Is that ok?

lol I feel this is probably the crux of the matter.